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how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:38 am
by gwilikers
Hi all,

I'm super frustrated trying to figure out how to send multiple outs (8) from an fx plug in to separate audio tracks.

I am using VCV Rack, an open source software synth (kind of like Reaktor). It is standalone software, but the included VCV Bridge lets you route multiple outs from VCV Rack into your DAW. It's a piece of cake getting it to work in Reaper. You create a track, insert VCV Bridge as a plug in, open the plug-in and select the number of channels you want (image 1), then create the desired number of additional tracks, and route them to receive audio from the first track and select the desired channel.

The only way i can get sound from VCV Rack into cubase is to create an FX channel and insert VCV Bridge as a plug in, then route it to an audio track, which works great for the one stereo channel. I have no idea how to get separate channels out the plug-in in cubase.

I also experience this problem using Reaktor (Native Instruments) as a multi-out FX plug in. An example is a module called Processed (image 2) designed to receive an audio source, add fx to it and create multiple loops which can be sent out to separate tracks. This is easy to to in Abelton Live, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to do it in Cubase. In Live it works like this: create a track and inset Reaktor multi-out as a plug-in; create additional track to record output of Reaktor; set the inputs of each of those tracks to the first track (with the Reaktor plug-in) and on each of these **assign the pulldown below the input of each to one of the listed Reaktor outputs**. Cubase doesn't seem to give me the option to do this last part.

I'm wondering if Cubase maybe just doesn't let you do this, which would be a shame...

Any one have experience with this? Thanks kindly!!

Win10, Cubase 9.0 Pro

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:24 pm
by Martin.Jirsak
Hi,

If I understand you right, you need to create multi-channel FX Channel. Not stereo, but for example 10 channels.

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:51 pm
by gwilikers
Yes I guess so. It's easiest to explain by comparing to other DAWs. I set up what I wanted to do in Bitwig and it looks like this (attached): along the bottom mixer row, the first track "VCV Bridge" has the VCV plug in on it, the following 5 sub-track (called chains I think in bitwig) each have one stereo or mono input from the VCV plug in routed to it. Then I have several audio tracks set to record those individual VCV input channels.

In cubase, I can insert the VCV plug-in on an fx track, but then have no idea how to separate the various channels from that vst plug-in. I know with Groove agent you can route different elements within one kit to mutiple channels, i'm trying to do something like that, but with 3rd party VSTs, and with fx VSTs, not instruments VSTs.

Make sense?

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:52 pm
by gwilikers
Um, is a multi-channel FX track a thing?

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:09 am
by Martin.Jirsak
Hi,

with VST (Effect not an Instrument), it could be a bit tricky.

I would try to do it this way:
- Add a multi-channel FX, for example 10 channels. Put the VST there.
- Add 10 mono Audio tracks.
- Set the FX In 1, FX In 2... FX In 10 as an inputs of the Audio tracks.

Now you get the wanted signal on the Audio tracks.

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:59 am
by swamptooth
This is particularly tough in cubase. The closest I've come is a combination of group buses with mix converts or mix 6to2 plugins. I had a sample project for reaktor here https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... st-1577746
working on vcv rack but it is tough because you have to nail the routing the first time or the vcv bridge stops operating. I think it's not being released by the host.

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:59 am
by swamptooth
gwilikers wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:52 pm
Um, is a multi-channel FX track a thing?
yes

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:42 pm
by gwilikers
Hey thanks for your replies. And thanks swamptooth for the link to the sample project. I wasn't familiar at all with surround settings, so that's helpful. Still a work around but ah well... The solution for me I think is going to be to use other software :(

I wonder why this can't be done in cubase when it's so straightforward in bitwig, reaper, live? (rhetorical question)

Cheers

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:19 am
by swamptooth
I think it can but it's a more esoteric use case. the release of vcv bridge has given me reason to pursue this more fully, so if i come up with a better solution i'll post it here. in the meantime, you can use many audio output modules set to bridge mode in vcv, set them to different ports, then have a stereo audio track in cubase for each one handling the audio back on a specific port.

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:32 am
by banjo1
Wow! This an exceedingly frustrating lack in functionality of Cubase (9.5) . It works quite well in Ableton live and in Reaper.. The only problem I have with both those DAW's is that VCV Rack (which currently does NOT utilize multi-core processes) Causes major CPU overloads, resulting in Audio Dropouts when trying to record a moderately complex patch. However, in Cubase, it does NOT cause drop outs! I'm not quite sure why. But then this problem of it not recognizing more than stereo outputs from a VST (in this case VCV Bridge) is quite surprising!
The thing is I KNOW the technology is built into cubase. As mentioned before, plugins like Groove Agent and Halion have multiple outputs (Halion has 16!) I wonder.. do other mutliple output VST's also have this problem? What about Native Instruments Kontact for example?
One Odd thing I have noticed is that despite the fact that I have VCV Rack Bridge AND the VCV Rack FX VST plugins in the same Steinberg VST directory, cubase only recognizes The Bridge64 plugin. I can't see the VCV rack FX plugin. So I haven't been able to try that work around!

Jeff

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:19 pm
by fractalsoup
This issue is related to the lack of 7.1 support in Cubase still:

Reaper has it by default. Nuendo can do it.

It is possible to configure a 5.1 (6 Channel) routing using the FX method. I haven't found an easy way yet though.

Re: how to route multiple outs of an fx to separate audio channels

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:19 pm
by hifi3000
Hey,

just realised the same issue. Until now I only did send control voltages with Reaktor. For that the VST-Instrument version works as expected. Now I wanted to drive an external synth with pitch and gate. And faced the same problem as discribed by the Op. No oscillator calibration without input.
So I did setup a 5.1 FX Channel to use 6 outputs of reaktor and have an input for calibrating the oscillators. Now within the 5.1 Channel I am setting up 6 sends to feed my expert sleepers ES3. Works all well, but to be able to send the 6 discrete streams, I have to solo the respektive 5.1 channel in the pan-routing of each send. Which works, buuutttt, the pan-routing is not stored with the project nor within a channel-preset.
So did anybody of you find a solution that is not as boring as manually restoring the solo-status of all 6 sends every time I am launching a project. Tried using audio tracks too. But it leads to the same issue, because you have to create 5.1 audio tracks to receive anything from the 5.1 Send FX. And within these audio tracks I am only able to select a certain channel stream by soloing it in the input panner. And this status is not stored as well.

I am on Cubase 10 by the way, although it probably does not matter with this issue.

Thank you,

Oliver