How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

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WellBassd
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How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by WellBassd » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:38 am

Hi there,

How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

I m asking bc I want to:

~ Change multiple VST parameters with one slider
~ Modulate LFOs to any VST parameters ( with Note follow )
~ Modulate VST parameters from Audio signals of tracks
~ Change parameters from high to low while others from low to high with same slider
~ Change one parameter from 0% to 15% while other parameter from 45% to 90% ( or more ) with one slider

msy
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 pm

This is exactly what I have requested since Cubase SX1. :)

Not possible to do really today in Cubase. Can be done with 3rd party vst's like Patchwork maybe?

Cubase is not modular... Cubase pretty much sucks when it comes to controlling parametres using LFOs/envelopes or even hardware controllers connected to several VSTs/parameters to one hardware knob etc. S

But Cubase excel in all other areas imho...

Any other 3rd party suggestions from anyone?
Cubase Pro 9.0.30 on Windows 7 using jBridge for 32bit plugins
(testing Cubase Pro 9.5)
HALion 5.1 (64bit)
Soundcard: RME Fireface UCX (USB) with ADA8200
DAW: Intel Core i7 3820 |
ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 6GB DDR3 1600MHz | Samsung EVO SSD 250GB | 2x2TB SATA2 | Sapphire Radeon HD 3450 256MB (with drivers from the original CD)
Comp. related hardware: Access Virus TI, UAD-2 Duo, Behringer BCF2000 (MCU), Akai APC40, Arturia Beatstep Pro, Nord Lead 4, Eurorack (12U) with Vermona qMI MIDI, Moog Sub37...

msy
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:07 pm

I just checked a Blue Cat Patchwork demo. Does not seem to be able to control multiple vsts/parametres with different min/max settings etc
And no LFO's built in... too bad.
Cubase Pro 9.0.30 on Windows 7 using jBridge for 32bit plugins
(testing Cubase Pro 9.5)
HALion 5.1 (64bit)
Soundcard: RME Fireface UCX (USB) with ADA8200
DAW: Intel Core i7 3820 |
ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 6GB DDR3 1600MHz | Samsung EVO SSD 250GB | 2x2TB SATA2 | Sapphire Radeon HD 3450 256MB (with drivers from the original CD)
Comp. related hardware: Access Virus TI, UAD-2 Duo, Behringer BCF2000 (MCU), Akai APC40, Arturia Beatstep Pro, Nord Lead 4, Eurorack (12U) with Vermona qMI MIDI, Moog Sub37...

Brian Roland
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by Brian Roland » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 pm

Been doing it it via Generic Remote Maps for years now. Nine times out of ten things I want to 'modulate' have a way to do it internally, but if not it can still be done.

1. Install a virtual midi port if you do not already have one. (For PC, For Mac)

2. Build generic remote device maps for anything you wish to 'modulate' and/or remote control.

3. Route your controller(s) through standard MIDI tracks, which are in turn directed to your virtual MIDI port, which is in turn directed to your Generic Remote Map.

Now you can:

1. Automate and modulate (using things like the MIDI LFO insert) pretty much EVERYTHING in Cubase at will on a standard MIDI track. Use your mouse and draw it right into the key or in place editor, or hook up your favorite slider/pot box and do it in real time. All the MIDI transformer and modulation tools in the track inspector are now at your beck and call for pretty much anything in the DAW.

2. Automate a ton of things in the DAW that don't have dedicated track types or automation lanes. I.E. Stopping the DAW. Launching Macros. Moving cycle points. Manipulating arranger tracks. Arming/disarming tracks. Much much more.

3. Take advantage of introspective MIDI recording. Take advantage of the numerous options one gets for cycling, organizing, and recording 'MIDI events'. Get as many 'versions' of an automation pass as you like. Easily slice and glue segments of your 'automation' in nice neat 'parts' that can be easily cut/pasted/scaled and more. Run batch logical editors on your automation passes. Open the door to multitudes of macros and such that can make quick work of automation curve edits that are simply NOT POSSIBLE at all in the standard VST meta automation lanes. Use punch points for starting and stopping when/where automation gets recorded. Use better visual editors for manipulating your automation data, and more.

Brian Roland
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by Brian Roland » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:11 pm

WellBassd wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:38 am
Hi there,

How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

I m asking bc I want to:

~ Change multiple VST parameters with one slider
~ Modulate LFOs to any VST parameters ( with Note follow )
~ Modulate VST parameters from Audio signals of tracks
~ Change parameters from high to low while others from low to high with same slider
~ Change one parameter from 0% to 15% while other parameter from 45% to 90% ( or more ) with one slider
~ Change multiple VST parameters with one slider

This can be achieved via The Generic Remote device, but you will need to 'stack maps' to make it work.
I.E. If you wanted to work something in two different plugins at the same time via single CC event then you would:
1. Make a map that links the CC to the first plugin instance/control.
2. Duplicate the map a second time from the same MIDI input source, but link it to the second plugin instance/control.

~ Modulate LFOs to any VST parameters ( with Note follow )

As mentioned above, you'll want a virtual MIDI port.
1. Create a generic remote map that links the CC you desire to the parameter you wish to modulate.
2. Assign the input of this map as your virtual MIDI port.
3. Make a MIDI track that will hold your automation events. Direct its MIDI output to the virtual MIDI port.
4. Load the Auto LFO MIDI insert effect in the track inspector.
5. Experiment from there. You have options to freeze the modulation into editable events on the track, or keep it as a dynamic effect.

~ Modulate VST parameters from Audio signals of tracks

I'll have to get back to you on this. I can quickly theorize a way to do it if you have something like Bidule at hand. For all the trouble involved I'd think it would be much better/easier to instead choose a proper side-chaining effect designed to be triggered by audio signals if that is what you need.

I'll really need to brainstorm on a possible routing to get it done without third party apps that can leech and re-route signals though. If you are using modern VST3 plugins that are designed to do this, it's usually a piece of cake! If not, then you'll need various tricks using group tracks and fancy panning tricks, possibly more (if it's even possible to get the audio signal transformed into MIDI events without some third party option).

~ Change parameters from high to low while others from low to high with same slider

First the approach can depend on if you need to modulate something in a VSTi (which has an obvious and easily accessible MIDI input, and possibly even learn/modulation features of its own), or via VST effect insert that does NOT have an obvious and accessible MIDI input. In the case of a VSTi, it's simply a matter of using MIDI tracks in combination with local or insert transformers (routing CCs through a remote map may even be optional). In the case of the VST, which has no native MIDI input, then you'd definitely need to chain MIDI tracks through remote maps using virtual MIDI ports.

Personally, I'd rather just use two sliders side by side and invert one of them in the firmware of my controller. It makes life a heck of a lot easier; however, if you really need this, again it can be done if you use generic remote maps and route things through a MIDI track first. Each MIDI track has up to 8 real time MIDI transformers you can use to echo and mirror a single CC into a double CC X/Y fader. For all the time and effort in doing this stuff in software, sometimes it's worth considering just investing in more inexpensive banks of MIDI controllers to hook into your system. These days you can even accomplish interesting things using your $40 andriod tablet and a sub $10 app to drive some things. Also, if you love software, or special adrino/raspberry pi + software combos, Bome has a great set of real time MIDI transformer products to look into!

Also, try not to think in such a compressed way. You get unlimited tracks in CuBase...so spread it out and let pure 'midi' tracks 'route things' where you want them. It's easy to pack them in folders and keep things organized. You can easily arm/disarm all tracks in a 'folder' when you need to work with them in 'bulk'. You can easily freeze and melt groups of tracks down to one, or out into many with events all organized as you like them. You can elect to work with 'stacked parts' that will fold out into lanes, or with independent tracks with the full freedom to route, transform, and modulate MIDI at will. There are so many situations where trying to echo and modulate junk via transformers are so much more complicated than simply using several tracks with 'simple filters' instead. Try not to 'overthink it' and force a single track to 'do everything on its own'. Let the project spread out and breathe....use LOTS OF TRACKS...you'll thank yourself later.

~ Change one parameter from 0% to 15% while other parameter from 45% to 90% ( or more ) with one slider

Two MIDI tracks (filter out all but the relevant CCs for each track) pointing to the same instance/plugin with local transformers and filters. If it is a VST type plugin (not VST/i) then you may also need creative use of some generic remote maps. If this is the sort of thing you need to do often, and in somewhat of a live or impromptu compositional work-flow.......I highly recommend considering something like Bidule, and doing a good bit of your 'sound design' in a consolidated form from there. Bidule is specifically designed to allow you build your own 'super instrument' out of any combination of plugins you like and modulate everything MIDI/audio about it before it hits the tracking DAW's mixing console.

msy
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by msy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 pm

Ah, so it is possible to do but only for MIDI supported VSTi's/VST's. And also needs the MidiLOOP software.
Looking at this from a modular perspective, it seems a bit awkward and time consuming to setup everytime you want to just control something. Menus, submenus, extra software/drivers, switch to controller firmware/program.
But I will have to try this, thanks! :)
Cubase Pro 9.0.30 on Windows 7 using jBridge for 32bit plugins
(testing Cubase Pro 9.5)
HALion 5.1 (64bit)
Soundcard: RME Fireface UCX (USB) with ADA8200
DAW: Intel Core i7 3820 |
ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 6GB DDR3 1600MHz | Samsung EVO SSD 250GB | 2x2TB SATA2 | Sapphire Radeon HD 3450 256MB (with drivers from the original CD)
Comp. related hardware: Access Virus TI, UAD-2 Duo, Behringer BCF2000 (MCU), Akai APC40, Arturia Beatstep Pro, Nord Lead 4, Eurorack (12U) with Vermona qMI MIDI, Moog Sub37...

Brian Roland
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Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:24 pm
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Re: How can i modulate anything in Cubase?

Post by Brian Roland » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:46 am

msy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:57 pm
Ah, so it is possible to do but only for MIDI supported VSTi's/VST's. And also needs the MidiLOOP software.
Looking at this from a modular perspective, it seems a bit awkward and time consuming to setup everytime you want to just control something. Menus, submenus, extra software/drivers, switch to controller firmware/program.
But I will have to try this, thanks! :)
No, you can do meta VST only type controls using MIDI. You use the generic remote device as a back-end to make it possible.

It does seem like a lot of trouble at first, but it's not really. It just takes some practice walking through the process. It's as simple as editing fields in a glorified XML editor....which is what it would be if you were not working from a MIDI track, but instead a VST automation lane.

Not that much difference....in many ways it's even far MORE powerful, because you can use logic editors and such on your automation events. Things we cannot do so well with the regular VST automation lanes. You get more choices on how you organize and edit things.

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