automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

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entoine
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:21 pm

hum.. maybe because it is the 9.0.40 and not 9.5.40 update... ;)

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Weasel » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 pm

hum.. maybe because it is the 9.0.40 and not 9.5.40 update... ;)
Oh crap, you're right. I completely zoned out on that. Well....I think there's still hope for the 9.5 update.
Sorry about that. Really.
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Oh.....so this is the Cornfield?....

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:55 pm

cubase 9.5.20 here, and it seems repaired, see version history :)
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Weasel » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:37 am

Yep, they fixed it.
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Oh.....so this is the Cornfield?....

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Clark Kennt
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:05 am

Can somebody shed some light on this?
(using mouse)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2s80zito38qq ... 2.MOV?dl=0

In the video,
1.
What happens -> if I use a line tool with VT, it creates a line to the start of the project.
What should happen -> it should just draw a line without making a line to the start of the track

2.
What happens -> if I use the pencil, it makes a node at the start of the track
What should happen -> it should not make a start node at the beginning of the track

3.
What happens -> if I use the line tool after I use the pencil, it works correctly.
What should happen -> the line tool should work correctly without needing to draw a pencil mark first...

The "musical" standpoint of this is that one can have parts in the track where automation kicks in, and in the other parts, you can play with the controller...

Can somebody please explain how it works in the current cubase itteration?

I am currently using Cubase v 9.0.20 (9.0.30 was a video fix that i do not need, 9.0.40 fixed bugs that do not affect me and are of no use to me, 9.5+ created too many new bugs atm...)

Thank you very much =)
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:46 am

« what should happenn » >> No, what you describe is not what « should happen ». you misunderstand virgin territories. When you engage automation and start an automation on a track, it writes a value at the very begining of the project to « remember the value which was before your first change. In virgin territories, cubase is always chasing the last value wroten, if you jump in a virgin territory it looks backwards to see what the value sould be (if you read your project from the start). It’s not a mode to have automation free zones att all, it is a different approach of automation, an one very more convenient for me. The only thing to have in mind is, when you aren’t in write mode, you can do change in virgin territories whithout cubase recall automation.. but this will not be saved.. as as soon you stop and play it will recall the last value. Virgin territories seems very confusing for a lot of people which seems to want « barriers or frontiers » between diferents automation zone with fresh starts... this is not virgin territories.

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:59 am

Yes, I think VT should have "free zones" where no automation is read or chased from some node far away... (since you cannot automate the R/W of automation)
This makes sense musically - and especially for live situations where you can have a "play around and jam" section..- but as soon as you get to point X - the pre-recorded automation kicks in...

This is what I think VT should be... (or introduce "free zones" ;) )

So what is happening now in v9.5? is it different to the video i uploaded, or...?
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Romantique Tp » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:02 pm

It's the same as the video you uploaded. The bug reported in this thread has already been fixed, along with most other bugs introduced in Cubase 9.5.
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:12 pm

I am still a little confused..lol..

Is there a way of drawing in an automation while leaving the area left & right of it untouched/unchased?

Thank you=)
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:21 pm

well, yes the bug has been fixed, and there is always people to want it broken 😂.
Well, dude, I agree it will be cool to have frontiers which will be usefull if you have different songs in a same project for example, so you want a fresh start at some point. Virgin territory mode is a whole another thing, it is a mode where your whole track is automated, your WHOLE track, but there is data only on changes, which is usefull because you aren’t bothered whith the continuous data when releasing a fader. Lets say you change volume on verse, you realease the fader and you expect it to stay at that value until the chorus, which as a volume change data too.. it is that way that works virgin territories.. if you jump in the middle of the verse after playing chorus, it will recall the value of the start of your verse because it is the last value you wrote for this passage and the value you want for the WHOLE verse. and if you adjust the data on the begining of the verse, you will not have a ramp between it and the value of the chorus, as you will have had in normal mode (nightmare)... is it clear??

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:31 pm

Yes, I grasp what you are saying now.. lol... It is an interesting take on what VT should be (in your opinion ;) ).. Thanks for that=)

-> Is there a way of drawing in/automating via controller data while leaving the area left & right of it untouched/unchased?
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:10 pm

its not what it should be on my opinion, it is what IT IS 🙂. to answer your question.. there is no way to have at the same time automation and no automation on the same track. you can adjust only between Land R if you want but threre is some value to recall before and after that, and that, that’s called automation .... you can not have cubase guess what value you want. when you don’t use automation it is like a unique value automation mode where you are in read and write all the time.. if you begin to want some change in some areas, it will have to write it some or other way.. the value you think is no automation, it has to be... If your left and right areas where really unchased, when you open a project, it will not recall values at all.

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:26 pm

I was looking for:

-> Dynamic automation, not continuous... only play automation where it is and leave the rest untouched (no start or end node except for the ones you make, no latching, no reset when i press play/stop/loop, no automated change whatsoever in "empty regions"), just surgical, dynamic, automation in specific areas of the automation lane... (described as "should be" in my video post above;) )

It seems VT just makes "ghost" automation start and end nodes between automation points -which could also be achieved with regular automation? - but it uses less data points i guess?
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by entoine » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:39 pm

:? well, you didn’t understood anything at all it seems.. if you think you can do with regular automation what you do with virgin teritories, you haven’t understood a damn thing. You say the rest untouched? so I guess for you it is as there will be a « volume of the track » independent of any automation, and wherever there is no automation, it will recall it. So in this mode no virgin territories, and welcome back all problem I have with regular automation... No it doesn’t use less data points, it doesn’t draw a line between them that’s all? what is so dificult to understand?? The point of virgin territories is to have level remain the same until further automation data is encounterd, no having to constantly overwrite and dealing with automation curves you didn’t even draw..

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:49 pm

entoine wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:39 pm
:? well, you didn’t understood anything at all it seems.. if you think you can do with regular automation what you do with virgin teritories, you haven’t understood a damn thing. You say the rest untouched? so I guess for you it is as there will be a « volume of the track » independent of any automation, and wherever there is no automation, it will recall it. So in this mode no virgin territories, and welcome back all problem I have with regular automation... No it doesn’t use less data points, it doesn’t draw a line between them that’s all? what is so dificult to understand?? The point of virgin territories is to have level remain the same until further automation data is encounterd, no having to constantly overwrite and dealing with automation curves you didn’t even draw..

calm down man...
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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by HughH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:40 pm

entoine wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:46 am
It’s not a mode to have automation free zones att all, it is a different approach of automation, an one very more convenient for me.
Indeed. Not Automation free at all.
Thus not "Virgin".
Clark Kennt wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:49 pm

calm down man...
Yes, entoine is quite passionate about this feature.
Clark Kennt wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:31 pm
-> Is there a way of drawing in/automating via controller data while leaving the area left & right of it untouched/unchased?
No, there is not.
I - and many others - complained about this when VT was first introduced years ago (in v7, maybe?).
When I read about the feature I thought, "Oh! Cool!". But when I used it I realized it was really no different than standard automation.
In fact, the ONLY difference is when you re in a "Virgin" territory you CAN move values (faders, etc) without them Immediately jumping back to their automated value (or the node written at the start of the song in VT - essentially a strait line).

But this is worthless because ANY movement (locating) of the cursor, as entoine correctly stated, returns all values to this preset level.
And there is absolutely no way to work on a section of a song without locating the cursor.

I do not understand why entoine and others who like this functionality do not simply use standard automation since any values changed in a VT are lost anyway! They could Suspend Read to move set values temporarily. But I'm sure they have their reasons.

So - for the rest of us crazies out here who like our Territories Truly Virgin I really hope Steinberg sees fit to add a switch/-preference/something that woud allow us to - ahem - "Break" the feature again.

Also, kind of cool idea using VT . . . well, the "Broken" VT . . . in Liive situations like thtat.

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Re: automation using "virgin territory" seems broken.. I made a video of the problem

Post by Clark Kennt » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:03 pm

Image
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