[CAN-6382]Mac users with GUI/graphics issue.

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[CAN-6382]Mac users with GUI/graphics issue.

Post by In_Stereo » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:55 pm

.
If you are experiencing the graphics and GUI issues that seem to be plaguing a good amount of Mac users, then this is what needs to happen if you want a fix!

I've been talking with Fabio and we need to consolidate as much info as possible to try to help remedy this longstanding and painful issue. Please carefully read what he is requesting and how to get it to him, and directly send Fabio the information. You can post it here as well if you want, but you MUST email the info to him.. I want to get this remedied and this is the only way to help make that happen.

Friends, please: ONLY post here as specifically outlined below. No angry posts, rants, other issues, or other discussions at all on this thread, please. Keep this productive and laser-focussed -- leave anything else to another thread.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Fabio: "GUI issues on OS X are known since a while, although they affect users and applications in very different ways. The point is to see if it's possible to improve the situation for those who experience the issue with Cubase, not start an argument. Those who want to report can send a system report to: info[at]steinberg.de - please, make sure to use "Mac slow GUI issue - ref. fbmgi16" as the subject.

I need to specifically know the kind of project, how the issue manifests, GPU (graphics card) used, amount of screens, resolution and type of connection. In order to restrict the search, please, also make sure to:

Remove automatic hitpoint detection
Render time-stretched events
Consolidate tracks made up of hundreds sliced events
Make sure there are no formerly black-listed plug-ins in use
Check that no backup service (TimeMachine) is running while the issue occurs and that the file-system is not encrypted

How to get a system report (make sure to do it while Cubase is running):

-- Apple menu
-- About this Mac
-- System Report
-- Once open, File -> Save


And any other details you feel are relevant. Thank you!"
Last edited by In_Stereo on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:11 pm, edited 96 times in total.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, PLEASE read and post

Post by In_Stereo » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:04 am

1. I get glitches and brief dropouts when opening many types of windows (i.e. edit windows) and when closing some windows like the Metronome Setup window (this happens whether or not there are audio events in the session and whether or not there are plugins involved). There is jerkiness and slowness when zooming in the project window, when moving audio events, when trimming audio events, and when selecting events (this all happens only when there are audio waves present in the project, more than 5 or 6, and it doesn't matter whether or not there are any plugins or VI's involved in the session). I also tried moving ALL plugins out so that there are none involved in Cubase at all, and the problem persists.

2. 2015 Mac Pro 6-core 3.7ghz, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, Sierra 10.12.1, 32 gig RAM

3. Two LG HD LED monitors. One is connected via HDMI, the other is connected via an HDMI-to-TB connector. The problem persists even if I disconnect either of the two monitors.
Last edited by In_Stereo on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Vinylizor » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:58 am

1 -
Audio glitches and dropouts when closing windows. EG, close drum editor and Groove Agent stutters.

Click drag selecting regions in arrange page while playing - often the selection lassoo isn't even drawn, you just get the highlighted regions when you release the mouse click.

Mutes, solo's channel faders are very slow to react when you click on them.

Dragging regions out of the visible window (so the timeline has to scroll) is unbelievably slow. (This has always been a Cubase issue on the mac - even pre SX!)

Mediabay - If I try and rescan a folder, it might take a minute before the scan starts. When switching through already scanned folders, it can take 10 or 15 seconds for their contents to show.

2 -
Mac Pro 5,1 2 X 3.46 Ghz 12 core 48Gb Ram. NVIDIA Quadro 4000. OSX 10.12.1

3-
Apple 30" Cinema Display DVI
Last edited by Vinylizor on Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Rkmusic » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:08 am

1.I'm really just getting lag and delay. It funny cause some projects don't lag at all.

2:2010 Mac Pro 6core 32gigs

3:two lg monitors if I'm not mistaken there using both hdmi
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Elias1957 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:58 am

1. Zooming in the arrange with delay, resizing MixConsole not very responsive, menues open slowly (sometimes). Behaviour regardless of connecting the second monitor (see below).

2. iMac 12,2 (Mid 2011), i7, 16GB, OSX 10.11.6

3. ACD 30 via TB-DVI adapter and the iMac monitor of course ;)
iMac 27 i7, 10.12.5, 16GB, C9.0.20 Pro,WL Elem.9 ... MacBookPro 2011 i7, 10.12.5, 8GB, C9.0.20 Pro

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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by In_Stereo » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:42 pm

Thanks so far guys. Let's keep this going, and let's keep it completely on point like it is so far...it will help try to narrow down the issues, which is all I'm after right now in order to get this fixed. Someone from Steinberg is aware of the thread and is paying attention. For those of you who have already posted, do you mind adding what video card is in your Mac? It's come to my attention that this is something very important to note.

We need to take specific action like this, so everyone who has this issue please chime in and respond with answers to the questions at the top. Thanks!
Cubase 9.5, Nuendo 8.0.2, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, Sierra 10.12.1 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 32 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Rkmusic » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:30 am

If this helps lowering the resolution on the monitors reduces the lag. Keeping it 1080p increases lag
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by orchetect » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:33 pm

I posted in the issues forum about long-standing graphics issues I've experienced. There's many, but I've only reported the most annoying - the retrospective record region tearing glitch. It's an issue that I had in Cubase 8 as well (and possibly Cubase 7).

viewtopic.php?f=254&t=108067

This actually happens on 2 different Macs.

iMac 14,2 27" late-2013 3.5GHz i7 4-core, 32GB RAM
- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M (internal chipset)
- Built-in display (non-retina): 2560 x 1440
- Cubase 9.0.1, macOS 12.2.1

Mac Pro 5,1 tower mid-2012 2.4GHz 12-core, 64GB RAM
- ATI Radeon HD 5770 (PCIe 16x card, 1024MB)
- Apple 27" Cinema Display (Mini DisplayPort) (non-retina): 2560 x 1440
- Cubase 9.0.1, macOS 12.2.1
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by James K » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:17 am

My issues are terrible play head performance on my Mac. Moving the mouse over elements in the inspector or the arrange window totally messes up the play head.

See: viewtopic.php?f=230&t=102966

My sys: iMac 27 in, Mid 2011, 2.7 GHz Intel i5, 16 gig Ram, AMD Radeon HD 6770M 512 MB


I don't have the same issues running Logic X with a heavy track count...same sys!
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by dezzo » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:21 pm

In_Stereo wrote:If you are experiencing the graphics and GUI issues that seem to be plaguing a good amount of Mac users, please post here with specifics:

1. What specific issues are you experiencing?
2. What model and year of Mac are you on? What video card is in it (very important)? What OS are you on? RAM?
3. What kind of monitor (s) are you using, and how are they attached to your Mac, in detail?
1. Zooming very slow and sluggish (NOT on PC !)
2. 2008 MacPro 2.8 GHz, ATI Radeon HD 5770 (doesnt matter here, tried different ones, same behaviour)
3. DELL U2713HM

I've posted on several threads about the same thing, got a bit tired. Since my Mac can't handle Sierra anymore i have to switch to PC now. Sad to see the same on C9 since this GFX behaviour on OSX is not a new subject at all as It dates back many major versions.

Here is another thread about this:
viewtopic.php?f=226&t=98242&p=551706#p543082
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by 22goldstreet » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:21 am

3 monitor setup. 2 24" and 1 30".
Mac Pro 8core , 64 gb ram, D700 DUAL.

C9 GUI super slow sluggish and laggy.
Unusable...
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by In_Stereo » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks again to everyone who has responded so far. Let's keep it going, please -- everyone else having GUI issues on their Mac please post in response to the original questions. This is being investigated with me by someone at Steinberg, and I'm helping to consolidate as many reports here as possible, which is why it needs to stay as focussed and non-angry as it has so far (thanks for that!).
Cubase 9.5, Nuendo 8.0.2, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, Sierra 10.12.1 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 32 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by jpgtr » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:51 pm

In_Stereo wrote:This is being investigated with me by someone at Steinberg, and I'm helping to consolidate as many reports here as possible
Deja Vu...

My info can be found here...

viewtopic.php?f=233&t=97467

TLDR: Same exact thread. Was in "C8 issues" for a long while, until SB gives up and bumps it to "misc".

:|
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Rkmusic » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:05 am

Hopefully they fix this issue it's been laggy for awhile now.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by kdogg456 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:15 am

I was having the same issues as everyone else with my 2011 17" Macbook Pro 2.2 ghz / 16GB ram / SSD with OS X 10.11.6, sluggish behavior and slowing to almost a halt when horizontal zooming in on mulitple audio files are stacked on top of each other.

I remembered how much snappier OS X 10.9.5 was and was forced to upgrade to use the latest version of Logic, but always felt that everything felt slower since 10.10 onward and never really liked the feel. So I did a fresh install on an SSD internal drive and installed 9.0.1 - it's like night and day better. So much more responsive and truly a joy to use. Yes, it will slow down a bit with multiple audio files stacked but not nearly as bad. Everything feels more responsive across the whole OS.

i also found the turning off the Overview Line speeds up zooming responsiveness. I always hack the key repeat speed to test the zooming responsiveness with this terminal command:

defaults write NSGlobalDomain KeyRepeat -int 0

You can also set the initial time it waits to start repeating:

defaults write NSGlobalDomain InitialKeyRepeat -int 4

(10 feels about normal to me so 4 is really fast, typing emails might be tough :) You need to restart to have it take effect.)


I know this isn't great news but it makes me consider building a hackintosh and using OS X 10.9.5 since switching to Windows would be too time consuming at this point. I have to stress test it a bit more but it seems pretty good so far.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by heraldo_jones » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:38 pm

The same problem exists with Pro Tools in MAC and I don't think is a daw problem, is a problem of the high graphics consumption of OS X (Mavericks or latest). My gui is also sluggish with a 2009 Mac Pro using a Nvidia GT120 512mb. The same system using Win10 with Bootcamp don't have any kind of issues.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by jpgtr » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:43 pm

This blog says Pro Tools lag is gone with 10.12

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... cos-sierra
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by In_Stereo » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:35 pm

With all due respect gentlemen, let's please keep this thread in particular on point. All I need are specs from the people who are experiencing GUI lag. For some (like me), other DAWs like Pro Tools and Reaper work perfectly GUI-wise while Cubase doesn't, so there are obviously variables involved. This thread is only about gathering specific information to Steinberg as requested, without going in other directions and discussions. Thanks!

No need to respond to this post unless it's only with the questions answered from the top if you're experiencing GUI issues. :-)
Last edited by In_Stereo on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Weasel » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:58 am

To all of you who are getting audio glitches while clicking on various GUI elements, I'd like to make this suggestion: deactive ASIO Guard (Devices/Device Setup/VST Audio System) and see if that improves your situation. I have found a correlation between ASIO Guard and audio interruptions while selecting GUI elements...particularly selecting things like Tracks in the Project window.

Other than that, I'm running an early 2009 PM 4,1 dual 4-Core 2.66gHz Nehalem with a GTX120 video card that was re-flashed to become a 5,1 machine that runs Sierra 10.12.2.

Other than the above mentioned ASIO Guard issue, I really don't see anything out of the ordinary or particularly sluggish at all, and considering my fairly under-powered video card, I find this quite surprising. I was initially running C9 on Yosemite and I believe under Sierra, things are running noticeably smoother.

My 2 cents.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:17 am

Hi all,

yes, GUI issues on OS X are known since a while (references below[*]), although they affect users and applications in very different ways. I've seen very few users who can report the same issue across several (DAW) programs, which does not really help, being so specific.

But the point is to see if it's possible to improve the situation for those who experience the issue with Cubase, not start an argument. Those who want to report, can send a system report[**] to info[at]steinberg.de - please, make sure to use "Mac slow GUI issue - ref. fbmgi16" as the subject.

I'm interested in knowing the kind of project, how the issue manifests, GPU used, amount of screens, resolution and type of connection. In order to restrict the search, please, also make sure to:

Remove automatic hitpoint detection
Render time-stretched events
Consolidate tracks made up of hundreds sliced events
Make sure there are no formerly black-listed plug-ins in use
Check that no backup service (TimeMachine) is running while the issue occurs and that the file-system is not encrypted

Thank you!


[**]
-- Apple menu
-- About this Mac
-- System Report
-- Once open, File -> Save

[*] References
https://forum.juce.com/t/laggy-guis-on- ... n/15717/24
http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... our-advice
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6351743
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-l ... pikes.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... ggish.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/apple-l ... nyone.html
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read!

Post by In_Stereo » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:14 am

Alright, everybody experiencing issues: Let's all step up and send Fabio the information he's requesting above. Let's help with action to get this issue resolved.
Cubase 9.5, Nuendo 8.0.2, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, Sierra 10.12.1 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 32 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read!

Post by In_Stereo » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:55 am

A gentle reminder for those experiencing GUI issues on Mac: Please contact Fabio as requested at the top, with specifics.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by 22goldstreet » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:46 am

heraldo_jones wrote:The same problem exists with Pro Tools in MAC and I don't think is a daw problem, is a problem of the high graphics consumption of OS X (Mavericks or latest). My gui is also sluggish with a 2009 Mac Pro using a Nvidia GT120 512mb. The same system using Win10 with Bootcamp don't have any kind of issues.
I disagree here,
I use Protools and can have 150 audio tracks with over 600 plugins in total on these running smooth like butter in real time.
Mixing there is a breeze. I just really prefer the cubase toolset for editing and programming midi based music.
but the performance is not even close.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by In_Stereo » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:00 pm

heraldo_jones wrote:The same problem exists with Pro Tools in MAC and I don't think is a daw problem, is a problem of the high graphics consumption of OS X (Mavericks or latest). My gui is also sluggish with a 2009 Mac Pro using a Nvidia GT120 512mb. The same system using Win10 with Bootcamp don't have any kind of issues.
Please, let's not continue this side discussion on this thread. I will end it here: This is factually not a DAW problem at this time, as I (combined with others I personally know plus others on this forum) experience the problem on Cubase but not in Pro Tools, Reaper, Logic, and Studio One.

Mac OS was indeed causing similar problems with Pro Tools, but AVID fixed it (I use PT 12 on my system to work on projects from before I switched to Cubase a few months ago, and it is smooth as butter GUI-wise).

Again: The problem does not exist currently on Pro Tools, Reaper, Logic, or Studio One. I'm only writing that to show that it is not a DAW problem for these other DAWs. :-)
Last edited by In_Stereo on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mac users with GUI/graphics issues, please read and post

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:34 pm

In_Stereo wrote:
heraldo_jones wrote:The same problem exists with Pro Tools in MAC and I don't think is a daw problem, is a problem of the high graphics consumption of OS X (Mavericks or latest). My gui is also sluggish with a 2009 Mac Pro using a Nvidia GT120 512mb. The same system using Win10 with Bootcamp don't have any kind of issues.
Please, let's not continue this side discussion on this thread. I will end it here: This is factually not a DAW problem at this time, as I (combined with others I personally know plus others on this forum) experience the problem on Cubase but not in Pro Tools, Reaper, Logic, and Studio One.
No, sorry, I don't agree. If we want to get to the bottom of this it's not possible to disregard known issues because you are not experiencing them. This was even discussed on the Apple developer forum as an issue affecting El Capitan and (to a minor extent) Yosemite - I'm not aware of any radical change with Sierra either.

The outcome is system specific and can affect different programs in a different way - Logic is no exception, in the KVR thread there is a Cubase user experiencing issues with Logic and not with Cubase (also check the JUCE forum link, even plug-in developers have different experiences with different hosts).

Every report is useful, even if it does not prove your point ;-)
Kidding aside, I'm very interested to understand where this issues comes from and why it seems to affect real-time apps in particular and gather as much info as possible.
As for the issue specific to Cubase, sending the info to me as written above will help more than any discussion.

Edit: In_Stereo, I received your latest e-mail, thank you and thanks to those who sent in their report, will get back to you ASAP. Sorry for the 'Christmas delay'!
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