Skinny Scrollbars Stink

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suntower
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by suntower » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:15 am

Of course, you're right... I misspoke in the heat of upset. But regardless, that 'hand' navigation with the mouse wheel is, for me, awful. If I'm not careful, it often selects another object instead of simply moving changing position. I'm sure I could purchase a mouse with different 'sensitivities' but I don't feel I should have to. The previous standard scrollbars/arrows worked -fine-.

Regards,

---JC
djw wrote:
suntower wrote:Thanks for taking the time to do that. Sincerely.
djw wrote:Exclusive Wu-Tang Kung Fu in action:

Image
But speaking just for meself... 'the hand' is as useless in Cubase as it is in Game Of Thrones.
I didn't have to switch tools. I just held the middle mouse button...
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Raphie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:36 am

Full size scrolbars are so XP :lol:
I'm probably the only one finding this an improvement, but I'm on a 2560 * 1600 30"

I can Imagine that on a 4k resolution 19" or 24" they are pretty impossible to work with?
Just lower your resolution, or increase your windows DPI setting?
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Prock » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:40 pm

djw wrote:Exclusive Wu-Tang Kung Fu in action:

Image
Thank you for the feedback/suggestion and making that "Wu-Tang Kung Fu" video. I never have been a fan of using the middle finger (well sometimes I use it... ;) ) as it seems to disrupt my workflow. But, I'm sure it is working for those who like it. I'm going to give it a go again as it seems like this scrol lbar thingy will not get fixed any time soon (if ever).

Regards 8-)
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Missing Left/Right/Up/Down Arrows in Scroll Bars

Post by suntower » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:11 pm

I'm getting -slightly- off-topic but I've been thinking a LOT as to exactly -why- the ARROWS are so onerous.

MOST of my editing is done while a song is PLAYING. I watch the thing scroll by and as it does I am ALMOST CONSTANTLY listening for edits I want to make. And I find that 'tickling' the scroll bars or the arrows is the fastest and LEAST DISRUPTIVE way to move back and forth without disturbing where my attention.

It's almost like having my fingers on a tape deck shuttle.

HERE'S THE THING: Whereas if I use the mouse wheel or some other technique I risk moving -something- by accident. But with the arrows or the scroll bars, I never risk accidentally selecting another object during playback.

I am sure that the other techniques are FINE when the project is stopped. But during playback? There is NOTHING like using the scroll bar or arrows to shuttle back and forth (or up and down).

The other REALLY ANNOYING thing about the mouse wheel is moving up and down. It always moves up and down one track at a time. I HATE that. I often have tracks open with many lanes and automation. And I want to move up and down in tiny increments; NOT one quantum leap at a time as happens with the mouse wheel. The mouse wheel moves up/down like a rolodex which I -loathe-. With the arrows, I can move 1/8th of a track at a time---which was -great-.

Now I'm sure some other bobkin will come along and say, "Well old guy, don't you know about 'X' technique?" Who cares? Why should I have to learn a new (non-standard) technique? Why re-invent a perfectly good wheel?
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by kyleknapp » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:31 am

suntower wrote: What drives me even worse than the angel-hair scroll bars is the ABSENCE of the down and up (or left and right) arrows at the boundary of each scroll bar. I use those ALL the time as a 'page up' or 'page down' functions with the mouse. But now that these are -gone-, I am -constantly- overshooting the place I want to navigate to. OUTRAGEOUS!
In 8.5 it was not "arrows", per se, but little round nodes, at the ends of the scrollbars, which "bumped" the focus of the project window left or right. I used them ALL THE TIME.

Seriously this is a big deal. I HATED the skinny scrollbars, and, along with many others, said so. So Steinberg responds by not only ignoring our complaint, but punishing us for complaining by making it even LESS usable...

Way to respect your customers, Steinberg.

I'm trying to get used to using Shift-Mousewheel as a workaround, but it (A) requires two hands and (B) requires me to take my eyes off the screen to find the Shift key on the keyboard. I think I could be happy if "+" and "-" could be programmed to serve a similar function (their default function of bumping the cursor left or right has never proved very useful to me).
~kyle

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by suntower » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:18 am

kyleknapp wrote:Seriously this is a big deal. I HATED the skinny scrollbars, and, along with many others, said so. So Steinberg responds by not only ignoring our complaint, but punishing us for complaining by making it even LESS usable...

Way to respect your customers, Steinberg.

I'm trying to get used to using Shift-Mousewheel as a workaround, but it (A) requires two hands and (B) requires me to take my eyes off the screen to find the Shift key on the keyboard. I think I could be happy if "+" and "-" could be programmed to serve a similar function (their default function of bumping the cursor left or right has never proved very useful to me).
I agree 95%. But I use the +/- all the time as 'nudge' buttons. (In fact, I wish they could be EASILY adjusted to 'nudge' by a variable amount--as in video editing programs. ie. you could vary the amount from 1 frame to 1 beat).

But overall... yeah. I've gotten hoarse complaining about this.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by folkfreak » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:31 am

Raphie wrote:Full size scrolbars are so XP :lol:
I'm probably the only one finding this an improvement, but I'm on a 2560 * 1600 30"

I can Imagine that on a 4k resolution 19" or 24" they are pretty impossible to work with?
Just lower your resolution, or increase your windows DPI setting?
:roll:

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by folkfreak » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:36 am

+1 Scrollbars are way too small.
They should be standard as in all the million other programs

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by jpgtr » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:56 pm

+1

I would like to also propose a function where you hold shift key and can (safely) use the mouse ball to scroll the mixer window vertically and/or horizontally.

Between lack of scroll ball "focus spots" and the tiny scrollbars, nav in the mixer is a PITA these days.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by vapro » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:36 am

+1 YES

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by McBass » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:10 am

+1. The GUI of Cubase has progressively gotten worse through the years. Not only are the scrollbars minuscule, the mousewheel scrolling can get messed up depending on what you hover over. Try it in the inspector, try it on the mixer, try it on the insert plugin list, try it....sometimes you scroll, sometimes you inadvertently adjust some random parameter, such as a send level, sometimes nothing seems to happen. The whole hover over to reveal more info is a mess. The general GUI Cubase look is fine IMO but in use it can be a real pain. Please Steinberg, listen to your users and hire a GUI expert. Preferably someone who actually uses DAW software.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by kyleknapp » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:32 pm

jpgtr wrote:Between lack of scroll ball "focus spots" and the tiny scrollbars, nav in the mixer is a PITA these days.
I DID get some useful information on this thread:
SteveInChicago wrote:I think few people have realized that the empty space next to the ends of the scroll bars function as did the old arrows. I just figured it out...
and
Prock wrote:Mmm... As I previously mentioned, I just hold down the middle button (scroll wheel) and drag left or right. No need to press ctrl or alt or any other key.
~kyle

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by suntower » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:44 pm

kyleknapp wrote:
SteveInChicago wrote:I think few people have realized that the empty space next to the ends of the scroll bars function as did the old arrows. I just figured it out...
and
Prock wrote:Mmm... As I previously mentioned, I just hold down the middle button (scroll wheel) and drag left or right. No need to press ctrl or alt or any other key.
For -me- those are not alternatives. The virtue of normal scrollbars is that you can put your mouse -anywhere- along the timeline and it goes -there-. Those alternatives are for moving from the current position. Totally different thought process. Or rather... they force me to -think- (about navigation)... which I do NOT want to do when I'm trying to concentrate on THE MUSIC.

The scrollbars are 'thoughtless'... your hand just automatically 'goes' to where the music is.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Prock » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:18 pm

suntower wrote:
kyleknapp wrote:
SteveInChicago wrote:I think few people have realized that the empty space next to the ends of the scroll bars function as did the old arrows. I just figured it out...
and
Prock wrote:Mmm... As I previously mentioned, I just hold down the middle button (scroll wheel) and drag left or right. No need to press ctrl or alt or any other key.
For -me- those are not alternatives. The virtue of normal scrollbars is that you can put your mouse -anywhere- along the timeline and it goes -there-. Those alternatives are for moving from the current position. Totally different thought process. Or rather... they force me to -think- (about navigation)... which I do NOT want to do when I'm trying to concentrate on THE MUSIC.

The scrollbars are 'thoughtless'... your hand just automatically 'goes' to where the music is.
I agree... :-)

Regards 8-)
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by jpgtr » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:20 am

McBass wrote:the mousewheel scrolling can get messed up depending on what you hover over. Try it in the inspector, try it on the mixer, try it on the insert plugin list, try it....sometimes you scroll, sometimes you inadvertently adjust some random parameter, such as a send level, sometimes nothing seems to happen.
EXACTLY! I rarely ever use scrollbars; I ALWAYS use the mouse scroll ball (or at least, I used to). I would love to be able to scroll horizontally and vertically in the mixer as we can in the arrange window! (As I previously proposed, some sort of modifier key to allow us to "safely" use the mouse ball while hovered anywhere over the mixer.)
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by aumordia » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:40 am

Asking for better scroll bars recalls to mind Henry Ford's old quip about "If I had asked people what they wanted, they'd have said faster horses." Scroll bars are pretty crap even when they're good, a relic of a bygone era. If you want big fat scrollbars (and everything else) everywhere, you get Studio One, which is not at all my cup of tea. I find Cubase such a pleasure to work with precisely because its so good at getting all the secondary and tertiary stuff out of the way so I can focus on whats of primary importance -- and things like scrollbars are very much secondary.

Cubase isn't perfect -- what is -- but sometimes I see passionate complaints/requests that make me wonder why Cubase can't be Cubase, and instead needs to be SAWStudio with a dongle.

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Stephen57 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:29 pm

+1

It should be a preference choice.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by McBass » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:46 pm

It sold be a smart usable GUI, that conforms to some sort of windows standard. Cubase gui is just not done right. Not bad looking but terrible to navigate, click fest. Zero touch support, etc.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by mozart » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:36 pm

+1 for bigger scroll bars and the arrows
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by madsv » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:50 pm

mozart wrote:+1 for bigger scroll bars and the arrows
+1!
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Orbit-50 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:54 am

Skinny scrollbars do stink. They really do. :lol:

I swear, because of this thread, every time I have to use the scroll bar, I think of that saying. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Weasel » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:36 am

Suntower wrote:
It usually takes 3-4 =years= before a company will fess up to something like this. I dunno if it's stubbornness or not wanting to hurt Dave's feelings or -what-. But SB just isn't known for admitting mistakes.
Well, maybe the fact that they moved this thread into the light of the General forum is a step in right direction. It took a thread just like this one to help kill off the unbelievably miserable "edge pop-ups"....which, mercifully, didn't take 3-4 years to do.
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by suntower » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:46 am

Weasel wrote:Suntower wrote:
It usually takes 3-4 =years= before a company will fess up to something like this. I dunno if it's stubbornness or not wanting to hurt Dave's feelings or -what-. But SB just isn't known for admitting mistakes.
Well, maybe the fact that they moved this thread into the light of the General forum is a step in right direction. It took a thread just like this one to help kill off the unbelievably miserable "edge pop-ups"....which, mercifully, didn't take 3-4 years to do.
One can dream.

But (paraphrasing my old boss) "NEVER underestimate SB's ability to market Kentucky Fried Chicken as 'hot. dead. bird.'"

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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by Crotchety » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:16 am

+1
Nothing more to add...
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Re: Skinny Scrollbars Stink

Post by audioguy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:27 pm

I don't mind slim scrollbars (I use a trackball) but I wouldn't mind having arrows.

I also wrote to NI about this but was ignored so I don't expect much of a response in this area; it seems the expectation is you will get a big monitor.

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