Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

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lucas_r_r
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Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

Hello

Today, to my rejoice, I discovered that NotePerformer supports bowed percussion! And I was decided to give it a go, by adding a custom playback playing technique to the Expression Map. But it seems either it is impossible or I'm doing something wrong, because the playing technique doesn't appear in the PT lane in Play Mode.
What I did:
  1. In a new project, add a Vibraphone
  2. Create a new playing technique named bowed (or modify the built-in arco)
  3. Assign the Bowed Playback PT to that technique, and remove the Alias attribute (which is "Natural" by default)
  4. Add a note and the PT in Write mode.
  5. Go to the Expression Maps -> NotePerformer
  6. Add Bowed as a Base technique, perform the settings as per the image below.
Still, the lane shows "Natural".
I've had some problems with this in the past with some custom PT, and it's a bit cumbersome to me. There must be something I'm doing wrong.
I'm aware that Bowed and Natural are in the same mutual exclusion group, but I assume that's also the logical thing, isn't it? Even so, if I create a new playback playing technique, say, Bowed2, this also happens.
I attach a sample project as well as some images.

Thanks!
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Captura de ecrã 2020-05-25, às 14.30.46.png
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Captura de ecrã 2020-05-25, às 14.33.26.png
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Noteperformer with bowed vibraphone.dorico.zip
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Lucas Rei Ramos
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

There's a special case for the 'Bowed' playing technique that causes it to fall back on 'Natural', which it does because that's normally a helpful behaviour for e.g. string instruments. I suggest you create your own custom playback playing technique called e.g. "vibraphone bowed" or similar, and use that both for the playing technique appearance and the switch in the expression map, and then you should find everything starts to work.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

Thank you Daniel for your reply. That was one of my thoughts, however, I cannot make it work either with a newly created playback playing technique. See the attached project, in which I created both a PT and a Playback PT named VibraArco. The playing technique lane still shows natural and the CC18, which I had defined to have a value of 30, is still at 0.
Attachments
Noteperformer with bowed vibraphone.dorico.zip
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Lucas Rei Ramos
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

You have two remaining problems: one is that your VibraArco playing technique is set to use the 'Natural' playback playing technique instead of your custom 'VibraArco' playing technique; the second is that you need to create a mutual exclusion group in the NotePerformer expression map containing 'VibraArco' and 'Natural'. You'll have to switch off the 'Auto' checkbox in order to do that.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

Thank you Daniel! That worked.
I was sure I had assigned the Playback PT to the PT, but I usually have problems with that dialog. I think it doesn’t commit whatever change I make to the text field if I hit OK before leaving it. I’m not sure. Or it might have been actually forgetting to assign it.
The part that I didn’t do before was the mutual exclusion group. I reckon I still have some difficult to understand how it works, like, does every PPT have to be in a mutual exclusion group against natural? But I’ll work it out.
Thank you for your help and congrats to the team for the great update!
Lucas Rei Ramos
Composer, Jazz piano player
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by DaddyO »

lucas_r_r wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:54 pm
Thank you Daniel! That worked.
I was sure I had assigned the Playback PT to the PT, but I usually have problems with that dialog. I think it doesn’t commit whatever change I make to the text field if I hit OK before leaving it.
Lucas, glad you got it solved. I had nothing but frustrations with EM's until I realized I sometimes was not successfully using this dialogue for the same reason you describe.
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

And now comes the dummie: Has or will Dorico do this automatically?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

No, this isn't something that Dorico will do itself. The NotePerformer expression map is developed by Arne at Wallander Instruments, and we at Steinberg don't make changes to third party expression maps.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Okay, so I'll have to understand this myself... :-)

I tried to imitate what Lucas has described but there are a few things I don't understand. To start with, his screen capture (first post) "captura de ecra 2020-05-25 14.33.26" shows the expression map dialogue where he clicked on NotePerformer and scrolled down under "Base and Add-on Switches". There are many more Names than in my list. Has he created them all manually or do I have another version? When I go under Expression map data the version number is 30.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

Félix Turrión wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:11 pm
Okay, so I'll have to understand this myself... :-)

I tried to imitate what Lucas has described but there are a few things I don't understand. To start with, his screen capture (first post) "captura de ecra 2020-05-25 14.33.26" shows the expression map dialogue where he clicked on NotePerformer and scrolled down under "Base and Add-on Switches". There are many more Names than in my list. Has he created them all manually or do I have another version? When I go under Expression map data the version number is 30.
Hello Félix. I haven't added all those techniques except for Bowed. My expression map version number is 20 right now.
Lucas Rei Ramos
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Rob Tuley »

The latest version of the expression map for NotePerformer 3.3.2 is 30. It has more playback techniques, for example Jazz articulations.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Hello Lucas! :-)

Thank you for your reply. Many of your Base techniques don't show up in my version... Maybe that's because they work more with add-on in the latest version?

In point "6." you add "bowed" as a base technique. I created a PT and a playback PT called "col arci". Is that a problem? And how did you work out the numbers 18 and 30?

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Sorry I was very confused and didn't explain well. I thought there might be a problem because of my chosen definition "col arci" because in the EM dialogue when adding a Base Switch I couldn't find my created "col arci" but that was only because the new techniques are not listed alphabetically. I found it a the bottom of the list.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

Yes, as a matter of fact, Daniel stated that it's better to avoid specifically "Bowed".
For some reason, my EM is still 20, even for new projects and with the latest NotePerformer 3.3.2 installed. I don't know why, but I'm going to check it out. The numbers 18 and 30 are the ones specified in the NotePerformer support page for bowed percussion.

EDIT: How idiot am I: I downloaded NotePerformer 3.3.2, but didn't install it. Doh!
Lucas Rei Ramos
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Interesting. Thank you for your reply. I hadn't thought of looking for the NotePerformer support page. But my new "col arci" technique works now! I'm so happy! I've been using it a lot in my pieces.

Hahaha, that's a solid explanation for your problem... Have a nice day!

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by PjotrB »

Allow me to nitpick a little: "col arci" is hardly Italian. Or was it the original wording in your source? The plural of 'arco' is 'archi', and 'col' is the combination of the words con+il, the masculine singular definite article (but not used before a vowel). In older scores one can occasionally encounter "coll' arco", which is correct, but why bother? Just "arco" would do.
If you really want to use the plural, you may write "cogli archi", or simply "con gli archi". This would actually rather mean "together with the strings" (i.e. the string section), instead of "bowed".
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by lucas_r_r »

PjotrB wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Allow me to nitpick a little: "col arci" is hardly Italian. Or was it the original wording in your source? The plural of 'arco' is 'archi', and 'col' is the combination of the words con+il, the masculine singular definite article (but not used before a vowel). In older scores one can occasionally encounter "coll' arco", which is correct, but why bother? Just "arco" would do.
If you really want to use the plural, you may write "cogli archi", or simply "con gli archi". This would actually rather mean "together with the strings" (i.e. the string section), instead of "bowed".
While I believe your remarks are correct (and I'm thankful for), I think Félix was looking for a name just for the technique in Dorico, regardless of the text that appears in the score. For that matter, I think "arco" would have the same problem as "bowed", is already mapped to "natural", whereas in percussion is not that what you want.
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Dear Pjotr,

Thank you for your surprising and useful remark. I do not speak italian...

I wanted to use something different than "arco" or "bowed" for technical reasons and at the same time specify that the plural as I have two percussionists playing the same vibraphone with in total four bows.

From what you have written, I understand that "cogli archi" would be the correct translation for "with bows"? Or does it mean "together with the strings"?

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Btw: I haven't found a way to make "motor on" work with NotePerformer. Is it not supported?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

No, I don't believe it is.

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Ahhh, thank you Daniel. That's a shame...

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by PjotrB »

I think, if you prefer to stick to Italian, just write arco or con l'arco. Cogli archi literally means "with the bows", as if you've referred to them before, or as if they're a standard part of a vibraphone. Besides that, the contraction cogli for con gli sounds archaic, it reminds me of 18th-century facsimiles... In the very special case that you want your percussionist to use two bows at a time, you could write con due archi.
Gould (p.300) is a bit too concise: "[Bowed notes] should be indicated with a written instruction beside the relevant notes", which isn't very helpful TBH. Kurt Stone (p. 211 in my edition) suggests a (vertical) bow pictogram, or a textual indication. He doesn't give a precise answer either, but I guess he'd use Bow or Bowed.

But as I'm just a humble cellist dabbling in orchestration, maybe there are knowledgable percussionists/orchestrators around who can shed more light on these notation practices?

EDIT for afterthought:
Would arco on a percussion instrument really also inevitably be mapped to a 'natural' playing technique? Don't expression maps etc. provide for different mappings for different instruments? This is unknown territory for me, so I don't have an answer to that.
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

Thank you for your effort, Pjotr! I will see if I can find Italian percussionists... :-)

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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by 888Xmuse59 »

Félix Turrión wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:26 pm
Btw: I haven't found a way to make "motor on" work with NotePerformer. Is it not supported?
There is a way around it. If you mark "vibrato" technique on the vibraphone it acts as though the motor is on. Just remember to reset it if you want to go back to the default.

Using Note Performer 3.3.2
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Re: Customise the Expression map for NotePerformer: is it possible?

Post by Félix Turrión »

888Xmuse59 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
Félix Turrión wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:26 pm
Btw: I haven't found a way to make "motor on" work with NotePerformer. Is it not supported?
There is a way around it. If you mark "vibrato" technique on the vibraphone it acts as though the motor is on. Just remember to reset it if you want to go back to the default.

Using Note Performer 3.3.2
Thank very much for that work around! As long as you don't use bows it plays back quite like a motor on. :)

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