Expression Maps

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gdball
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by gdball » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:18 pm

For Pedal lines, in playback options you can delay the depression, retake, and release by percentages of a quarter note if that would help.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Andermusik » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:51 pm

Brian Roland wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:05 pm

legato is triggered upon slur marks.

By this do you mean that notes under a slur automatically apply the "Legato" Playback playing technique?

If so then theoretically I can adjust that note length percentage value (when it is eventually implemented) on various ExMaps and control default playback note-lengths on a per-stave basis - which is what I'm trying to do.

I'm still surprised there is no separate "Slur" item in Playing Techniques. Seeing "legato" written in a part is not the same as seeing slurs.

Thanks!

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Andermusik » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:59 pm

Andermusik wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:51 pm
Brian Roland wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:05 pm

legato is triggered upon slur marks.

By this do you mean that notes under a slur automatically apply the "Legato" Playback playing technique?

OK confirmed. When I asked this I hadn't read Paul's answer in an earlier post.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Andermusik » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:18 pm

When I assign a new Keyswitch in Spitfire to, for example Tremolo and Trill, does it negate the repeated note playback technique you find in NotePerformer, etc.? The sound I am triggering is already a Trem/Trill so it needs to behave like a regular note. (It sounds like the note is repeating on playback, but it's a little hard to tell actually).

If I change the "Number of Strokes" in the Playback Options then it won't function when I switch back to NotePerformer. Have I got that right?

What's the best way to disengage that behavior only for my Spitfire Library?

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:21 pm

Provided you have an unmeasured tremolo switch defined in your expression map, Dorico shouldn't generate additional notes for a one-note unmeasured tremolo for instruments using that expression map, and you shouldn't have to change anything in Playback Options.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Andermusik » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:53 am

Can anyone think of a reason why the custom Playback playing technique I created ("09 Marc Half Note (SpF)" at the top of the list) is NOT available to select in the Expression Map window?

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Expression Maps Window.png
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Andermusik » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:43 am

Andermusik wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:53 am
Can anyone think of a reason why the custom Playback playing technique I created ("09 Marc Half Note (SpF)" at the top of the list) is NOT available to select in the Expression Map window?
SOLVED. Somehow I got into trouble by duplicating one of the Playback playing techniques and renaming it. I backtracked, discovered which one had been renamed, and got back on track.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by David Tee » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:28 pm

I'd be grateful for any help on this.

When it comes to Expression Maps I'm fine with Note-specific Keyswitches but all at sea when it comes to Control Change parameters. I'm currently working with Project Sam's Swing! libraries - and it won't get much simpler than their Double Bass instrument from the first library. Aside from glissandi (all note-related, no problem there) there are only 4 articulations - 1) Plucked Long, 2) Plucked Short, 3) Slap Plucked Long and 4) Slap Plucked Short. These are all generated via a combination of Velocity (CC#7) and the Mod wheel (CC#1).

Image

The Slap function is generated from a high velocity number (it appears to be anything at 120 or over) and the Long/Short function can be set to extremes.

Ideally I would like to be able to call on these articulations within Dorico by assigning Playing Techniques and combinations of Playing Techniques in Write Mode. Not just call on them, but have them playing back too. If it is possible, how would I assign the 4 articulations? 1) Natural (Plucked Long) 2) Staccato (Plucked Short) 3) Slapped Legato (Slap Plucked Long) and 4) Slapped Staccato (Slap Plucked Short).

One of the issues here is that I would like to assign a Slap articulation independent of any recorded note velocity - or have the slap articulation boost velocity into the acceptable range. Is that even possible?
• Dorico 3.1.1, Cubase 10.5.5
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by gdball » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:01 pm

"Preserve note velocities" is one of the available preferences for recording that you can turn off, but I think you'll have to switch it on and off when you're recording for a given instrument - I haven't seen a setting per staff or instrument.

I apologize in advance if I am a terrible explainer.

It isn't that different working with Control Changes in the Expression maps. First I'd create a new P.T. and Playback P.T. named "slap". Apologies if you've done that kind of thing a million times. But you click on "Playback techniques" from the engrave menu option and it uses the usual "plus sign at the bottom of the list to create a new one. When you do, you'll be asked to select a Playback P.T., and there is an edit button next to where you'd normally select that will in turn allow you to create a new Playback P.T.

Once that's done. I'd create at least these entries in your expression map:

Natural
Staccato
Slap
Slap + staccato


For each one, instead of choosing a Key, you should click the button add a CC. Once you do choose channel #1. Click the CC button again to add a second CC and choose channel #7.

At this point the only difference between the four entries in your expression map will be the values that you give to CC #1 and cc #7. Entering 0 will represent no mod wheel or no velocity, and 127 will represent full mod wheel or full velocity. (I think that they default to a value in the middle of 64.) You can use any number in the range 0 to 127 to tweak how much of each one that you want, but I'd start with:

CC #1 with 0 (Long) and CC#7 at 0 (Normal Pluck) for Natural
CC #1 with 127 (short) and CC#7 at 0 (Normal Pluck) for Staccato
CC #1 with 0 (long) and CC#7 at 127 (Slap Pluck) for Slap
CC #1 with 127 (short) and CC#7 at 0 (Slap Pluck) for Slap Staccato

Does that help, or worse than before? Again my apologies.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by mhcoffin » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:56 am

Happy New Year. Here's an expression map for trumpets, horns, and trombones from VSL Synchronized Brass I & II. From the readme file:

Divisi: Unison (all four players), Desk1 (players 1 and 2), Desk2 (players 3 and 4), Player1, Player2, Player3, Player4.
Techniques: natural, flutter-tongue, blare, sfz, sffz
Articulations: natural, staccato, staccatissimo, tenuto, tenuto-staccato
Attack: normal, marcato
Legato: normal, legato
Mute: mute, open

...and combinations of the above: pick one from each category.

Coming soon: the low brass and Wagner tubas from the same VSL packages.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by David Tee » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:23 am

Hi gdball,

Many thanks for your reply and for walking me through it - you explained it perfectly. There's no problem with the Modwheel (CC1). If I look at the instrument in Kontakt I can see it clicking away from Long to Short just as it should. The problems are with CC7. An Expression map setting of 0 (for Plucked) results in no sound for playback. Curiously, a setting of 127 doesn't turn on Slap. The only way I can turn on Slap is to increase the velocities in the playback.

Project Sam does allow parameters to be reassigned. I'll see if reassigning Velocity to a different CC# can make it work.

One last thought. Any use of Staccato in Dorico changes Note Duration. If I use Staccato to call up Project Sam's "Short" sample what I'm actually getting is a mix of the sample and the shortened note duration. What I really want is just the sample with no chance of the release tail being cut off. That sounds to me like I need a new Playing Technique ("Short") - no?
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gdball
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by gdball » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:08 pm

That's one way. You could change the duration of "staccato" in Play->Playback options but I don't know which is the least intrusive to how you're working as it would affect everybody. If its only a note or two, I'd be tempted to leave the notation conventional and adjust the duration per note in the play tab.

On the other issue, you might check at the top of your expression map and see if velocity is used as part of your dynamics.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by mhcoffin » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:37 am

I've completed the Dorico expression maps for VSL Synchonized Dimension Brass I & II. This release supports trumpets, horns, trombones, low brass, and Wagner tubas. Let me know if anything doesn't work. Details in the readme file.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by David Tee » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:32 pm

gdball wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:08 pm
That's one way. You could change the duration of "staccato" in Play->Playback options but I don't know which is the least intrusive to how you're working as it would affect everybody. If its only a note or two, I'd be tempted to leave the notation conventional and adjust the duration per note in the play tab.

On the other issue, you might check at the top of your expression map and see if velocity is used as part of your dynamics.
I've persisted with trying to get #CC7 to work, but no luck. Frustratingly, it's the one parameter on the page that Project Sam haven't made available for reassignment. As they say - "Volume, or CC#7, linked by default to Kontakt’s Instrument volume". I've tried all possible combinations in the Volume Dynamic area but the Library refuses to do anything other than read the individual note volumes. As an aside: Project Sam's libraries lean more towards being played, rather than programmed. Ah well - I'll just have to tinker with individual note volumes to get Slap working.

Thanks again for your help.

ETA: Apologies if it's already been raised but the enter key on the right side of the numeric key pad isn't available for use while entering Numbers into the Expression Map. Only the Enter Key to the right of the letters will work.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by David Tee » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 am

A couple of questions about Dorico's "internal Effects" and their effect on Expression Maps.

Image

Am I right in thinking that the Internal Effects relate to Duration and Dynamics and are there any plans to enable users to bypass the Internal Effects if samples exist - as, for example, is already possible with Trills?

Image
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:29 pm

Yes, in the fullness of time we anticipate that you will be able to specify whether Dorico will play its MIDI approximations of articulations as well as or instead of sampled alternatives provided by the virtual instrument.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by David Tee » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:35 pm

Thanks Daniel.
• Dorico 3.1.1, Cubase 10.5.5
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by richhickey » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:51 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:29 pm
Yes, in the fullness of time we anticipate that you will be able to specify whether Dorico will play its MIDI approximations of articulations as well as or instead of sampled alternatives provided by the virtual instrument.
That would be great. Even for trills, the current choices are not quite right for dealing with e.g. VSL which provides "performance trills", samples for use in performing trills. They are sampled trill transitions, not sampled trilling. One wants Dorico to "play" the trills, using these samples.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by giwro » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:25 pm

Just a quick note of thanks for the exclusion feature... I finally dipped my toe back into creating rules (I quit in frustration back with V2). In about an hour and a half, I had some working rules - all it took was some searching for posts here and a few looks at the online Help.

So, coming soon will be some rules for EWQLSO - starting with strings, since that seems to be what I need most.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by johnsmith101 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:36 am

Andre wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:35 am
Another problem I noticed is that already after using only 5 string sections in an orchestral score, Dorico can’t keep up anymore, and starts skipping notes. I can play this score without any problem with the full library loaded in Sibelius. Does this mean that Dorico uses much more processor power for the same task than Sibelius? That would be a problem and if so, there isn’t any point to try getting the libraries mapped. That would be a waste of time. tubemate get-mobdro.com authorityapk.com

I also have this problem, if someone has a solution, please tell me
Last edited by johnsmith101 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by PaulWalmsley » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:42 am

Try increasing the buffer size of your device in Edit > Device Setup.

Also there are various settings in HALion Sonic SE you can set if you open its Options page. You can allow it to use more CPU cores, which may improve things.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by meaks » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Hello,
Actually trying Dorico, I would like to make an expression map for Cinematic Studio Strings.
I'm facing a little problem, I understand that I need to have a "Natural" Articulation, I created it and it works, but... I also have created a "Natural Harmonic 1" articulation and the problem is that Dorico plays a "normal" note instead of an harmonic one. Also, I noticed that when I remove the "Natural" Articulation from the expression maps, Dorico plays the harmonic note as it should be but in the other side it doesn't play normal Arco notes at all until I place a slur line between notes (Legato).
Do you have an idea to get that problem solved ?
Thanks,
Meaks.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:18 pm

Try putting your natural and harmonic techniques into a mutual exclusion group in the expression map.

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Re: Expression Maps

Post by meaks » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:17 pm

Thanks for your quick answer Daniel.
I included Natural and Natural Harmonics in the same exclusion group but It doesn't change anything on that problem...
Any other idea ?

Meaks.
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Re: Expression Maps

Post by Derrek » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

It might help if you included a couple of measures from the composition in question in Dorico format, zipped, just enough to let Daniel and others access your troublesome Expression Map.
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