Import Session Data?

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pondwalden
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Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

I saw that this (or a version of this) was going to be a new feature in Nuendo 7 but haven't been able to find much info on it. Just wondering how much control over importing it gives as opposed to what is available in Cubase.

Any feedback from current users? I was looking for a N7 trial but couldn't find one. Is that not available to try things out before dropping the big chunk of change?

Thanks!!

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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by Grabber »

Advanced Project Collaboration is the official name of the feature set.

pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

cool, what options/features does it have over the Import Track Archive in Cubase?

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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by OnBeat »

Only advantage is that you don't have to open the project that you want to import tracks from. On the bad side, you can't import groups, just audio tracks.
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pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

Does it still lock everything to it's original timecode? One of the most annoying things about Cubase is when I want to pull some tracks from a cue earlier on in the film into a cue later on in the film, instead of importing the information in the tracks to the corresponding measures, it pushes everything in the current project later to make room for the tracks I'm importing. If the cues are far apart, this could be hundreds of measures. And to top it off, then all the regions in the current project are off the grid because Cubase moved them by time, not by measures.

Just wondering if the option to ignore timecode on import was there. I'm not sure how this would EVER be helpful. I've never seen another DAW import this way.

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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by OnBeat »

No, I would love an ignore musical mode/timecode option on import. There is no such option now.
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by umfufu »

I would also love the ability to import midi and instrument tracks.
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pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

It is kind of pointless to have to have that feature. BUT Cubase (and I'm assuming Nuendo) bring in the time code positioning of Imported tracks which no other DAW to my knowledge does. Therefore if your current project and the imported tracks have different timecode, it creates a bit of a mess.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by MattiasNYC »

pondwalden wrote:It is kind of pointless to have to have that feature. BUT Cubase (and I'm assuming Nuendo) bring in the time code positioning of Imported tracks which no other DAW to my knowledge does. Therefore if your current project and the imported tracks have different timecode, it creates a bit of a mess.
I don't understand... The DAW has only one timecode, right? I mean, surely there aren't two simultaneous and different timelines...

In PT when you import "session data" you get to choose what to do if the start time codes aren't the same (of the open session compared to the one you're importing from). And even if it is the same you can offset the incoming one.
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pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

Yeah, for whatever reason (I have no idea why) when you import tracks in Cubendo they have the timecode info saved with them and on import it throws all your current stuff later if the imported tracks are before the current project. Or if the important tracks are later than the current project, they import dozens of measures later.

Unless you set the current project to be the exact same timecode as the imported tracks, they will not import measure one = measure one.

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lemix
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by lemix »

Sorry guys, I haven't had the chance yet to experiment with N7's "Import Session Data", so I might be way off here, but...

Couldn't you just import onto new tracks ? Then you are free to to spot them in anywhere ?
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by goodbyenine »

I think it's pretty clear here that including Timecode information in import is NOT helping. My workflow is similar to the OP. I work on music cues, many many of them. Each cue is spotted randomly to a different part of a larger framework of time - EG an episode of TV programming.

If the TV programme starts at 10.00.00.00, I may have a cue at 10.12.20.00. I may have another cue at 10.45.00.00. The client says "hey we love that sound you did in the cue at 10.12.20.00, can we have this in your cue at 10.45.00.00 please?" So great, we think, lets pull in that track using Advanced Project Collaboration.

So we open up the the cue at 10.45.00.00, which probably has a bar number 1 appearing at 10.45.00.00. We then pull in the track from the cue at 10.12.20.00 and Nuendo thinks we want to "expand the cue at 10.45.00.00 to start EARLIER in time" and goes ahead and inserts hundreds of measures (bars) before the material we already have at 10.45.00.00. Of course, if the cues have different tempi, the original music in cue at 10.45.00.00 not only now sits at bar 1 plus xxx but is likely to have musical notes appearing between beats, as the the insert that was made by Nuendo is based on TIME rather than MUSIC.

It kinds makes the feature useless unless we can disable the Timecode position of the material we are importing.

Meanwhile, we need to be able to import ALL the stuff, including Instrument Tracks and the plugins associated wit them.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by MattiasNYC »

So if I understand you correctly the cue stays in place on a timecode timeline, but the bar numbering changes?

10:45:00:00 = bar 1 of music cue "B"

after import

10:12:20:00 = bar 1 of music cue "A"
10:45:00:00 = bar 1+X of music cue "B"

So far it seems reasonable. I'm guessing one can't "restart" the numbering of bars for the second piece because as soon as you (or Nuendo) wants to relocate to bar X you may have two of them.

If I remember correctly Pro Tools has a way to snap a beat to a timecode location, and since I don't do MIDI in Nuendo I'm wondering if it can do the same? In PT you'd basically say that whatever bar/beat you're at needs to sit at timecode X. In this case you'd tell it that bar 1+X, but rounded to a downbeat, would happen at exactly 10:45:00:00. That way you'd at least have a downbeat at that point.

Obviously you'd have to adjust tempo if cue "A" is at a different one.

Additional question: Are you able to lock all data before import and thus have it stay in place?
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by tim_heinrich »

Yes, I want to import all tracks. In Logic you can import everything since years. And you can choose, whether you import all or just context, settings...

pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

goodbyenine stated it well, but just to put it a different way.

project A timecode = 1:12:20:00 (music starts in bar 1)
project B timecode = 1:45:00:00 (music starts in bar 1)

I've done a fair amount of work on project B and I want to import several tracks (midi and audio) from project A to project B to reuse/rework themes or simply to have the same sounds but not have to re-set up all the VSTi's and plugins that I've dialed in for project A.

Tracks from project A are selected and exported using the "Export Selected Tracks" command.

Project B is opened and upon using "Import Track Archive" you are presented with a window allowing you to choose which tracks you want from the archive and you are even given the information that the tracks being imported are a different timecode from the current project. It's almost saying "You are about to completely screw up your current work if you hit OK"

I hit OK and all the tracks are imported with MIDI and audio regions, automation, inserts, etc. starting at bar 1 BUT the project now has the timecode start of 1:12:20:00 and ALL the regions, automation, etc. have been shifted hundreds of measures BACK to maintain starting at 1:45:00:00 and because I dared use a tempo other than 60 or 120, none of it is on the grid anymore because it was shifted by time, not by musical relation.

This is the issue I was wondering if it had been addressed with Nuendo 7's touted new import feature, but it sounds as though it still operates the same. The thing I'm scratching my head on is WHY it ever operated like this in the first place. I can't think of a single scenario if you were wanting to import tracks into a different project with a different timecode you would EVER want the imported tracks to maintain their original timecode, change your project's timecode, and move everything else.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by MattiasNYC »

From my standpoint doing almost exclusively post production what you'd want is one single timecode timeline. If you want to import something that exists outside of your current timeline the current one must be expanded to fit the new material. At that point a good DAW would either provide options, like Pro Tools does, or it will simply import material at its original location, and keep the material already in the project where it was. So in this example Project A would still start at 1:12:20:00 and B at 1:45:00:00, and whatever amount of "dead space" is between them is appropriate.

Really the problem is dealing with bars|beats. This is why I asked if the downbeat can be shifted at will, and if you could lock events in place. Can anyone answer?

It seems if you can then the solution is:

1: Set a tempo change marker and bar numbering marker at 1:45:00:00.
2: Lock everything down.
3: Import from Project A.

Now either the bar at 1:45:00:00 is the same (bar 1 / beat 1) with earlier bars either "off" or with a negative number, or bar 1 beat 1 is now at 01:12:20:00. In either case, "reset" a downbeat of the closest bar at either location. So if that works you'd have something like:

01:12:20:00 - bar 1|beat 1
01:45:00:00 - bar 245 | beat 1

obviously tempo markers to fit....

or am I still missing something here? I guess I'm not really seeing a solution to your problem except for what Pro Tools does. But isn't this the whole reason people tend to work in individual projects/sessions per cue; to be able to freely and without concern change tempos etc?....
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pondwalden
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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by pondwalden »

Lydiot wrote:I guess I'm not really seeing a solution to your problem except for what Pro Tools does. But isn't this the whole reason people tend to work in individual projects/sessions per cue; to be able to freely and without concern change tempos etc?....
Yes definitely. Individual projects per cue are certainly preferred.

I see now that for non-musical post-production situations like foley, ADR, sound design, etc., the current way import functions is desirable. It's too bad however that one can't simply choose to have the timecode positioning on imported tracks be ignored. For scoring situations, tracks being imported that start on bar 1 should import to bar 1 in the current project without changing the positioning/timing of anything else. Bar 5 to bar 5 and so forth. Pro Tools, Logic, DP all behave this way when importing tracks (even giving the option to import to the cursor if desired).

It's very helpful to bring things in from other cues and rework them. Hopefully Steiny will implement this at some point. I was hoping the import advertised in N7 would be more robust. That alone would almost justify the cost upgrade for me.

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Re: Import Session Data?

Post by umfufu »

Agreed. It's pretty worthless until it has those features.
Sad to say.
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