Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

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producerinlondon
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Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by producerinlondon »

Hi,

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I've searched for an answer and I haven't been able to find one.

I would like to find out how to export (one by one, and also in batch) an AUX FX track without its source.

I am aware that the batch export offers to export FX AUX only. However it's not possible because of my setup. Please let me explain:

Tracks ->> Group ->> SUBMIX Group ->> MASTER

Each group sends to 1 or several FX aux. Each FX AUX is routed to the SUBMIX Group.

Using the batch export there are 2 main problems. 1. Each group will not have the SUBMIX output added. 2. If I have 2 or more FX AUX being sent from a group, the batch export will export each FX AUX, when I only want 1 FX track (that includes for example the output of 2 FX AUX being routed to the SUBMIX group)

I have experimented with the Listen button on the FX Aux, but when I export, it exports the source as well.

I have also read about soloing the source track, enabling the pre fader button for the send, and turn down the fader. This however wouldn't work for me when I have volume automation as well on the source track. Also, I don't usually put reverbs on 100% wet, so turning fown the fader on the source track would affect what I'm sending, right?

Any ideas please? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by MattiasNYC »

For #1 I don't see the problem. You said you wanted to export only the FX, so what happens to "each group" seems irrelevant. You asked for the FX, right? The groups you can export either by tapping the signal at the group or SUBMIX level.

For #2 it seems easy enough (?); why don't you just add another output channel and use direct routing from each FX AUX to that output, and then choose that output as a source for your FX track export...

PS: If you want to get a "clean" export of your Groups + SUBMIX but without FX then I'd a) say you could just duplicate the SUBMIX group and using direct routing output your Groups to that one as well without the FX, and b) that if you have dynamic processing on your SUBMIX it'll never sum correctly if you take the exported FX-only and Group/SUBMIX-only and add them, because the dynamic processing would have reacted to the FX content.
Nuendo 10.3 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 2004 build 19041.450 / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

producerinlondon
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Re: Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by producerinlondon »

Hey MattiasNYC, thanks for taking the time to reply.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
For #1 I don't see the problem. You said you wanted to export only the FX, so what happens to "each group" seems irrelevant. You asked for the FX, right? The groups you can export either by tapping the signal at the group or SUBMIX level.
Sorry I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Do you mean in the batch export? Or exporting one by one? If you meant in the batch export ,it won't be possible to export each group including the SUBMIX output, since the chain will stop at the group level (and the same for the FX AUX channels).
Exporting one by one, sure I can do, but when there are 50 groups to export, you can see the problem...
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
For #2 it seems easy enough (?); why don't you just add another output channel and use direct routing from each FX AUX to that output, and then choose that output as a source for your FX track export...
That's a good idea, I didn't think about that. It forces me to create another group whenever I need to sum 2 or more FX AUX channels but at least it's a possibility. Thanks

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
PS: If you want to get a "clean" export of your Groups + SUBMIX but without FX then I'd a) say you could just duplicate the SUBMIX group and using direct routing output your Groups to that one as well without the FX, and b) that if you have dynamic processing on your SUBMIX it'll never sum correctly if you take the exported FX-only and Group/SUBMIX-only and add them, because the dynamic processing would have reacted to the FX content.
Well, re a) if I have 50 groups, that would mean creating 50 SUBMIX groups, right? just so I could route each group to SUBMIX group. Same problem as my reply to #1. To clarify, the SUBMIX group is to manage my headroom easily, without having to touch on the volume of each group, so no dynamic processing on the SUBMIX group.


I still don't have an answer to my main question though...Unless I misunderstood what you said. How do I export FX AUX channels without the source? If each group sends to a FX AUX channel, how do I get to export the FX only?? (Inc the SUBMIX group output) In batch export (as the chain would stop at the group level, and not the include the SUMIX output) or one by one. If I do it one by one for the FX AUX channels, it will export the whole chain, inc the source, unless I use the pre fader button on the send in the group channel and turn down the volume on the group, but I don't want to do that, since I have volume automation on the groups, which in turn would affect the effects.

Thanks for your help!

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by MattiasNYC »

producerinlondon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:57 am
Hey MattiasNYC, thanks for taking the time to reply.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
For #1 I don't see the problem. You said you wanted to export only the FX, so what happens to "each group" seems irrelevant. You asked for the FX, right? The groups you can export either by tapping the signal at the group or SUBMIX level.
Sorry I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Do you mean in the batch export? Or exporting one by one? If you meant in the batch export ,it won't be possible to export each group including the SUBMIX output, since the chain will stop at the group level (and the same for the FX AUX channels).
Exporting one by one, sure I can do, but when there are 50 groups to export, you can see the problem...
(edit: I just read the end of your post after writing the following)

Well this is why I was confused. Because what you wrote above you make it seem like your goal is to export a bunch of groups that normally sum together in your "SUBMIX", but export them into individual files with the "SUBMIX" processing. This essentially sounds like you want to create stems (in the "true" sense of the word) from those groups and then have them sum to the same signal as they do when they go through the "SUBMIX".

That's typically not possible if you have any dynamic processing on that SUBMIX. If you try that and send it out to someone who expects that all those stems will sum to equal the mix (from the SUBMIX) then they won't and you risk getting a call from whomever that is complaining that your stems aren't correct. So I think it's generally really bad practice (for post production). If you don't use dynamic processing on the channel that sums the groups then you should be able to just move whatever non-dynamic processing you have on the SUBMIX to the individual groups instead which should solve the problem. Obviously you'd have to just pay some attention to things like overall level, but you would be able to generate 'accurate' stems at least.

So basically I don't think there's a way around this problem and it's a problem we see people having pretty frequently.

If that's not what you mean then I don't understand what you mean by "the chain will stop at the group level".
producerinlondon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:57 am
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
For #2 it seems easy enough (?); why don't you just add another output channel and use direct routing from each FX AUX to that output, and then choose that output as a source for your FX track export...
That's a good idea, I didn't think about that. It forces me to create another group whenever I need to sum 2 or more FX AUX channels but at least it's a possibility. Thanks
Right. If you don't already work with templates then now's the time to start, and if you do then it's time to "update" them :-)
producerinlondon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:57 am
MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
PS: If you want to get a "clean" export of your Groups + SUBMIX but without FX then I'd a) say you could just duplicate the SUBMIX group and using direct routing output your Groups to that one as well without the FX, and b) that if you have dynamic processing on your SUBMIX it'll never sum correctly if you take the exported FX-only and Group/SUBMIX-only and add them, because the dynamic processing would have reacted to the FX content.
Well, re a) if I have 50 groups, that would mean creating 50 SUBMIX groups, right? just so I could route each group to SUBMIX group. Same problem as my reply to #1. To clarify, the SUBMIX group is to manage my headroom easily, without having to touch on the volume of each group, so no dynamic processing on the SUBMIX group.
If you have no dynamic processing on the SUBMIX then just get rid of it. If it's just about managing levels through simply gain reduction (or boost) then get rid of it and do it on the group/FX level instead. You could either use VCAs (pay careful attention to automation though!) or just link the faders (I think).
producerinlondon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:57 am
I still don't have an answer to my main question though...Unless I misunderstood what you said. How do I export FX AUX channels without the source? If each group sends to a FX AUX channel, how do I get to export the FX only?? (Inc the SUBMIX group output) In batch export (as the chain would stop at the group level, and not the include the SUMIX output) or one by one. If I do it one by one for the FX AUX channels, it will export the whole chain, inc the source, unless I use the pre fader button on the send in the group channel and turn down the volume on the group, but I don't want to do that, since I have volume automation on the groups, which in turn would affect the effects.

Thanks for your help!
- I don't have Nuendo v7 open right now so I can't see the batch export window, but are you saying that FX channels aren't available as a source for export? If you select an FX channel as the source for your export then whatever leaves that channel should be what you export, nothing else. Same as with groups or outputs. And if you get something other than just the effect in that output then that's also what you're getting in your mix feeding your SUBMIX. So if everything is working the way I think it is I don't see the problem.

- If you want to include the SUBMIX processing (level change) then again either do the level change on the preceding channels or create a duplicate SUBMIX output for the FX channels specifically. I don't think there's a way around this.
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producerinlondon
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Re: Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by producerinlondon »

Thanks again Mattias
MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:08 pm
Well this is why I was confused. Because what you wrote above you make it seem like your goal is to export a bunch of groups that normally sum together in your "SUBMIX", but export them into individual files with the "SUBMIX" processing. This essentially sounds like you want to create stems (in the "true" sense of the word) from those groups and then have them sum to the same signal as they do when they go through the "SUBMIX".
That's excatly what I do. Direct output group (and FX) to Submix group for summing. SImply because that way it's easier to adjust the volume when I need to export stems and gauge the heardroom
MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:08 pm
That's typically not possible if you have any dynamic processing on that SUBMIX. If you try that and send it out to someone who expects that all those stems will sum to equal the mix (from the SUBMIX) then they won't and you risk getting a call from whomever that is complaining that your stems aren't correct. So I think it's generally really bad practice (for post production). If you don't use dynamic processing on the channel that sums the groups then you should be able to just move whatever non-dynamic processing you have on the SUBMIX to the individual groups instead which should solve the problem. Obviously you'd have to just pay some attention to things like overall level, but you would be able to generate 'accurate' stems at least.
Yes, but if you have many tracks, adjusting the volumes on each group is not ideal. Simply time consuming especially when there's automation involved.

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:08 pm
So basically I don't think there's a way around this problem and it's a problem we see people having pretty frequently.
Too bad :-(
MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:08 pm
If you have no dynamic processing on the SUBMIX then just get rid of it. If it's just about managing levels through simply gain reduction (or boost) then get rid of it and do it on the group/FX level instead. You could either use VCAs (pay careful attention to automation though!) or just link the faders (I think).
THAT (using VCA faders) is a great idea, thank you! This is a work around I can use. I will have to remove the submix group but this sorts out my issue.

MattiasNYC wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:08 pm
- I don't have Nuendo v7 open right now so I can't see the batch export window, but are you saying that FX channels aren't available as a source for export? If you select an FX channel as the source for your export then whatever leaves that channel should be what you export, nothing else. Same as with groups or outputs. And if you get something other than just the effect in that output then that's also what you're getting in your mix feeding your SUBMIX. So if everything is working the way I think it is I don't see the problem.
Yes I can export FX channels in the batch export, but without the summing through the SUBMIX group. With the VCA faders work around I can do without the SUBMIX group.

Thanks a lot for your help!

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Export FX aux only without source (specific circumstances)

Post by MattiasNYC »

n/p
Nuendo 10.3 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, 2004 build 19041.450 / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

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