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Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:33 am
by Keyplayer
Looking at all of the complaining going on over at the Avid site regarding the Project window not following the VCA spill commands. When I asked if this was PT specific, they said yes "Nuendo doesn't have this problem with the S series because it doesn't have VCA spill."

Is that right? Nuage doesn't offer VCA spill?

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:11 am
by Keyplayer
So, "our version" of VCA Spill is "EXPAND?" I thought we had it!

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:08 pm
by ErikG
Spill expand...

Both are techniques to show tracks that are controlled by a VCA.
Yes they are slightly different.
On the S6 you can spill left/right from the VCA master. With the Nuage you hit expand and everything connected to that VCA will show on the surface.

It's not the same but they IMO serve the same purpose and do the same job.
Important side note is that expand does not fully work over eucon and that is a big drawback. I can't understand why Steinberg has not been able to implement this for eucon.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:58 pm
by MattiasNYC
Can't you just use the visibility agent to achieve about the same thing with eucon?

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:43 am
by ErikG
Nope, and that is the darnedest thing. Eucon doesn't reflect visibility changes at all. If it did it would be very nice.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:43 pm
by Oliver.Lucas
ErikG wrote:Nope, and that is the darnedest thing. Eucon doesn't reflect visibility changes at all. If it did it would be very nice.
Has that changed in the next Nuendo major release maybe?

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:46 pm
by MattiasNYC
ErikG wrote:Nope, and that is the darnedest thing. Eucon doesn't reflect visibility changes at all. If it did it would be very nice.
Yes, very nice indeed. That's kind'a a big bummer I think.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:35 am
by Keyplayer
ErikG wrote:Nope, and that is the darnedest thing. Eucon doesn't reflect visibility changes at all. If it did it would be very nice.
That's not entirely true. I programmed my Artist MC Control to lock 8 layouts with the 8 Configurations in Nuendo. I was even able to build a macro utilising "blank layouts" to return to open status when I close the configuration. But, otherwise, you're correct about eucon not following all of Nuendo's statuses. It's pretty frustrating.

I was also able to use the layouts to mimic my "VCA Spill." I made a layout for each of my VCA Masters to "spill" into my left or right Artist Mix. Not as elegant as REAL VCA Spill or having the hardware follow the configurations, I know. But "A nod is just as good as a wink to a blind horse!" :lol: So if it looks and acts like a VCA spill, then it is a VCA spill. Same goes for the configs.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:31 pm
by J-S-Q
I've found a reasonably good workaround involving some macros programmed in AutoHotkey, triggered via my Avid S3 which more or less allows me to do VCA spill and to show/hide tracks simultaneously on the arrange page/control surface with Visibility Agents. It's not quite as good as the real thing but it's pretty close.

Happy to share the details but be warned it's kind of complicated to set up. Once set up though, it works very well.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 pm
by MattiasNYC
If you guys could detail how it works that'd be great for those of us who are considering Artist's for the future.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:15 pm
by J-S-Q
It will take me a while to fully explain my method. It took a while to figure it out!

Firstly, here's a quick video showing VCA spill working. Sorry for the poor quality.

https://youtu.be/EGXZ2rzhNss

As I said, it sounds very complicated but it all ends up being triggered by a single soft key which triggers various key commands/Macros in AutoHotKey. So.... complex to set up (which you only have to do once)... but simple to use. :)

This is the basic concept:

1. You select the tracks you are interested in and then use a Visibility Agent to hide all other tracks in Cubase.
2. Trigger the Divide Track List key command.
3. Select all visible tracks and then use the Toggle Track List command to move the tracks to the upper area of the screen.
4. This means that all your visible tracks now appear as the first tracks on the control surface. All the other tracks (which are now hidden in Cubase) are out of the way and appear to also be hidden on the control surface.
5. The MixConsole should be synched to the arrange page. This ensures that you see the same thing on the arrange page/MixConsole and the control surface.

Using this basic method, there are all sorts of possibilities, such as VCA Spill (which is done using the visibility Agent called 'Show Channels that are Connected to the First Selected Channel'. I also have a key command to show only tracks that have data at the cursor position for example.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:37 pm
by Keyplayer
MattiasNYC wrote:If you guys could detail how it works that'd be great for those of us who are considering Artist's for the future.
Based on the improvements I've seen in the S3, If I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't waste time on Artist Series stuff. My big hesitation, besides the price, with the S3, was that you couldn't link multiple units. So, no growth potential. But now they're talking about making them linkable by the end of the year! So, now I have to reconsider that purchase.

However, if you want the congfig/layout macro instructions for the Artist Series units, here they are. It's a pretty simple process.

1) Make configuration in Nuendo/Cubase and save it.
2) Make a Layout in the Artist Control or Mix that matches the configuration, saving the last input of your layout to place a blank layout template. Be sure to give this layout the same name as the configuration.
3) Store the Configuration on the Mixer Page of the MC.

Now when you select that configuration on the Controller, Nuendo will go to that setting on screen AND the controller will snap all of the matching faders to that same configuration via the layout. Th best part is, because of the blank layout template in the macro, when you exit the configuration the controller will also release the layout. So, you're back to regular mix mode in one button push! YOU HAVE TO EXECUTE THE COMMAND FROM THE MC! If you do it from the software, as stated earlier, Eucon will not follow along.

Since Nuendo is limited to 8 STORABLE configurations, you'll have to manually launch any matching layouts for configs 9 or higher. But the net result is the same. The hardware will match the software's visibility setting.

I had one configuration that had more channels than I had faders. So, launching that config launched the first layout and I had to manually switch the MC to go to the "extended channels" layout. But, as long as I went back to the 1st set of channels during the initial config launch, the layout would still release the hardware back to normal mode upon exiting the config. I hope this helps. ;)

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:53 am
by Keyplayer
Is "CHANNEL EXPAND" a Nuage only feature? I couldn't find any info on it in the Nuendo 7 manual.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:09 am
by ErikG
No it isn't exclusive. But for some incredibly weird reason it's named very differently in the mixer and key commands.
Bla bla bla connected to first channel something... not in studio ATM.

It's not just for vcas it works with groups and output buses to.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:24 pm
by J-S-Q
ErikG wrote:No it isn't exclusive. But for some incredibly weird reason it's named very differently in the mixer and key commands.
Bla bla bla connected to first channel something... not in studio ATM.

It's not just for vcas it works with groups and output buses to.
Yes, although just to be clear, this does not work on Eucon controllers. It will spill the tracks on your screen, but not on the control surface.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:54 pm
by Keyplayer
J-S-Q wrote:
ErikG wrote:No it isn't exclusive. But for some incredibly weird reason it's named very differently in the mixer and key commands.
Bla bla bla connected to first channel something... not in studio ATM.

It's not just for vcas it works with groups and output buses to.
Yes, although just to be clear, this does not work on Eucon controllers. It will spill the tracks on your screen, but not on the control surface.
Okay, so how do you "Expand" the channel from the software? Like I said, I got nothing from the manual when I typed in Channel Expand in the search window.

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:26 pm
by Keyplayer
Keyplayer wrote:
J-S-Q wrote:
ErikG wrote:No it isn't exclusive. But for some incredibly weird reason it's named very differently in the mixer and key commands.
Bla bla bla connected to first channel something... not in studio ATM.

It's not just for vcas it works with groups and output buses to.
Yes, although just to be clear, this does not work on Eucon controllers. It will spill the tracks on your screen, but not on the control surface.
Okay, so how do you "Expand" the channel from the software? Like I said, I got nothing from the manual when I typed in Channel Expand in the search window.

Never mind, I found it (right click on channel to open channel agents directory). As usual, it's a shame that Eucon won't follow it automatically. :( Although, based on the success I've had with programming layouts to follow configurations, I suspect that it MIGHT be a feature that could be programmed in.

I'm sure it wouldn't be worth the hassle though, since you'd have to lose a blank layout for every configuration you build, in order to get back to regular mix status, not to mention how many scenarios you'd have to predict in order to cover that task! :cry: You only get 48 layouts on the Artist series (96 on the S6). So, your max count of fully functional setups would only be half that amount.

But at least you can program a shortcut button to access the channel expand from the MC Control. That's something. ;)

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:25 pm
by vaptorx
J-S-Q wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 4:31 pm
I've found a reasonably good workaround involving some macros programmed in AutoHotkey, triggered via my Avid S3 which more or less allows me to do VCA spill and to show/hide tracks simultaneously on the arrange page/control surface with Visibility Agents. It's not quite as good as the real thing but it's pretty close.

Happy to share the details but be warned it's kind of complicated to set up. Once set up though, it works very well.
Could you please share the details how to do this ?

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:31 pm
by McSound
Yes, give us the tip please!

Re: Does Nuage have VCA Spill?

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:05 pm
by Keyplayer
vaptorx wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:25 pm
J-S-Q wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 4:31 pm
I've found a reasonably good workaround involving some macros programmed in AutoHotkey, triggered via my Avid S3 which more or less allows me to do VCA spill and to show/hide tracks simultaneously on the arrange page/control surface with Visibility Agents. It's not quite as good as the real thing but it's pretty close.

Happy to share the details but be warned it's kind of complicated to set up. Once set up though, it works very well.
Could you please share the details how to do this ?
I don't mind putting in a little "programming elbow grease." How is this done? Will it work on Artist Series hardware or is it specific to S3 and up?