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Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:19 am
by wagzy
And, by the way, +1. (I would like to say +10 or +100, for emphasis.)

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:04 am
by Nonikoff
Guys, suffering for PRE fx level tweaking. well I do agree that clip envelope thing is pretty useless in cubase due to it's "undrawability" and awkwardness, but there's always a trick that can help - instead of making points and dragging envelope segments, just use scissors, separate let's say a word of your vocal track, gain using mouse wheel - that's all )) Clicks U say? - no - just separate in right place and use autofade feature. 3-10 ms is pretty ok for working on vocals. And it is MUCH faster, than doing it the way U want or the way Pro Tools offers. OK YOU DON'T want to do like I said and want envelope to work in FRONT of compressor? Ok - no prob too - inserts 7 and 8 are POST fader (volume envelope, which is what you want actually). i'm on both platforms and do a LOT of vocal tweaking and know everything about what's faster. Definitely not enveloping. So don't ask for implementing of ProTools philosophy of editing in Cubase. Use ProTools then. It has lot's of good stuff when You mix, but is terrible when you arrange. There are lots of things in Cubase to be improved and implemented so that's the very last feature I'd dream of with Steinberg. Sorry -1.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:07 pm
by GargoyleStudio
+1

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:35 am
by wagzy
Nonikoff wrote:Guys, suffering for PRE fx level tweaking. well I do agree that clip envelope thing is pretty useless in cubase due to it's "undrawability" and awkwardness, but there's always a trick that can help - instead of making points and dragging envelope segments, just use scissors, separate let's say a word of your vocal track, gain using mouse wheel - that's all )) Clicks U say? - no - just separate in right place and use autofade feature. 3-10 ms is pretty ok for working on vocals. And it is MUCH faster, than doing it the way U want or the way Pro Tools offers. OK YOU DON'T want to do like I said and want envelope to work in FRONT of compressor? Ok - no prob too - inserts 7 and 8 are POST fader (volume envelope, which is what you want actually). i'm on both platforms and do a LOT of vocal tweaking and know everything about what's faster. Definitely not enveloping. So don't ask for implementing of ProTools philosophy of editing in Cubase. Use ProTools then. It has lot's of good stuff when You mix, but is terrible when you arrange. There are lots of things in Cubase to be improved and implemented so that's the very last feature I'd dream of with Steinberg. Sorry -1.
I am specifically asking for these Clip gain improvements (namely, being able to quickly highlight with the range tool and swipe the gain down/up with one motion of the mouse) because I have spent more hours than I would care to spend editing things like the sibilance of words and phrases, which can't always be easily split from the rest of the track, manipulated, and faded in/out without adverse effects. Since I tend to dislike the resulting sound of most de-essers that I have tried, I prefer to go manual.

Thanks for this tip, though, Nonikoff! I'm going to try to use the "scissors and mouse scroll wheel" technique that you mentioned because it seems much faster than my current method for some editing situations. However, I don't see how it could be quicker than what I requested for quickly controlling those sustained and conjoined 'essy' vocal phrases and for grabbing little bits of automation with the range tool and bringing them up or down. What is shown in the animated image on page one of this thread seems faster than your way editing for those situations, IMO. Again, I'm going to employ your tip. Thanks, in advance, for saving me time!

BTW, in the past, when I have done my editing (for de-essing) in a similar way to what you prescribe. I would highlight the track, cut it into phrases, highlight all phrases and fade in/out, cut out all of the 'esses, highlight all 'esses only, and adjust their volume to taste. Obviously, my way didn't really work fast enough for the situations that I mentioned earlier.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:57 am
by jmullis
+1. I am a heavy Pro Tools user for mixing as well as an occasional Cubase user (most all versions since late '90s) for composing. Clip gain manipulation in Pro Tools as the OP indicates makes manual de-essing, surgical noise removal, etc. extremely efficient. There is no messing about with slicing and dicing. As the OP's graphic illustrates, it is extremely quick and offers a much more efficient workflow than any of the workaround tricks proposed in this thread. This is one of no more than a half a dozen items that Steinberg development could implement in Cubase that would rob Avid of a significant number of users of its PT base. The new 8.5 clicked a couple off the previous list.

It is important to understand I am not implying Cubase has to be a Pro Tools "clone". As a long time PT user it wouldn't take too many more features to make me jump ship to use Cubase for all ITB mixing duties. There are so many features in Cubase that mop the floor with PT, but the ability to edit and navigate audio clips is sorely lacking from a production workflow perspective. If Steinberg were to institute a concerted effort to do a usability study with experienced PT users as to what are the show-stoppers preventing them from adopting Cubase as their production DAW, the must-have list would be quite short. And, Avid is not sitting on there hands. Some major, cool features Cubase users have enjoyed for years just came online in PT over the past six months and recent weeks as they have moved to shorter feature release cycles.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:05 pm
by JT3Jon
To me what makes this protools feature powerful is not only the speed (which is really important) but the fact that all this automation is pre fader (so before any dynamics processing) and is visually reflected in the waveform (so its easy to see your changes). The problem with Cubases current clip gain system is the fact that you cannot draw nodes. It works fine for adjusting the volume between phrases where there is silence (split the region and adjust the gain accordingly) but as soon as you try use it adjust the volume of a word or note in a phrase, you will hear a very audible and unnatural jump because there are no ramps / nodes to smooth out the change at the cuts. Adding node ability in clip gain would fix this issue and make it much more useable IMO.

I wonder if a quick solution would be to code it so the PreGain automation (in the PRE section of the mixer) to reflect changes in waveform gain visually? Would there be any potential negative to using pre gain this way?

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:51 pm
by aklipopo
+1000

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:17 pm
by zyguli
You can do this with Cubase. Just RTFM.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:59 pm
by Winter Rat
Bump

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:01 am
by Evertone
+1

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:09 am
by DemonStray
+1, absolutely. I think this is the only Pro Tools feature that I've felt I would like implemented in Cubase.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 6:34 am
by mjtutoriels
+ 1 +1 +1 +1 ... please !

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:19 pm
by VirusTI82
+1 Yes, I need that to. Very good function.

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 5:08 am
by jpm999
+100000000

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm
by Bacizone
An easy workaround for the jump automation in Cubase:
https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/18322 ... e-easy-way

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:48 pm
by Nightshade888
+1

...So this still has not been implemented? What is holding the developers back?

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:29 pm
by Centralmusic
+ 1 !

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:45 pm
by tim_heinrich
+1

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:21 pm
by HvO82
+1

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:28 pm
by BM-TSR
+1

PS. And this should also be applied to editing the automation lines...

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:00 am
by nexis
+1

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:11 pm
by Winter Rat
Bacizone wrote:An easy workaround for the jump automation in Cubase:
https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/18322 ... e-easy-way
Yes, it's the easiest workaround in the world! But! 1.Choose line tool. 2.Change it to pulse mode. 3.Draw the line. 4.Choose object selection tool. 5.Select the nodes. 6. Set the level you need.

or

1.Choose range selection tool. 2.Select region. 3. Set the level you need. 4.Choose object selection tool.

If you need to do it several times in row in case of workaround you'll repeat 5 steps every time, in case of real feature 2 steps only.

Regards

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:29 pm
by BM-TSR
Smart Tool > select range > drag volume-line up/down > Done!

For both Clip Gain and Automation Line ;)

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:11 am
by nexis
BM-TSR wrote:Smart Tool > select range > drag volume-line up/down > Done!

For both Clip Gain and Automation Line ;)
+1,000,000!!!

Re: Clip Gain Improvements

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:08 pm
by Timo
1. Use range tool (key 2). Select the range you want to influence.
2. Hit key Shift+X.
3. Hit key 1.
4. Change event gain with your mouse (small arrow at the top middle of the created event).
5. Hit key 2 to use the range tool again.

If you create a macro with key command for the two key steps, you save one step:

1. Use range tool. Select the range you want to influence.
2. Use your macro key command.
3. Change event gain with your mouse.
4. Hit key 2 to use the range tool again.

Completely non-destructive, you can always revert. This way it is one step more than in ProTools to do the job.