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Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:55 pm
by djstyleee
I have demoed Cubase several times and really like it but theres one thing I just cannot get used to. I use a magic mouse and if I am say in the mixer, and want to scroll across the mixer if I am anywhere near pan or sends etc I end up adjusting that parameter, same for up/down scrolling on faders. I do not have this problem in any other applications I use. Even close to a parameter for a split second and it is active, is there anyway to disable or adjust this setting, I would rather knob/fader scrolling only to be active after I have actually clicked on that particular parameter or when hovering over the actual knob/line etc or even not at all. The fader could be at the very bottom, I could be at the very top and right over the other side of the channel and it still moves the fader when scrolling.
Is there any preference settings or workarounds for this? I have messed around with the 'controls' in prefs but they didn't help. Surely I am not the only person who dislikes this?

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:04 pm
by Winter Rat
No way, man, No way.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:29 pm
by Parrotspain
Try changing the way the mouse interacts with the faders:

Preferences>Editing>Controls>Slider Mode>TOUCH (default is JUMP)

If I understand you correctly, this should solve your problem.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:33 am
by djstyleee
Parrotspain wrote:Try changing the way the mouse interacts with the faders:

Preferences>Editing>Controls>Slider Mode>TOUCH (default is JUMP)

If I understand you correctly, this should solve your problem.
Thanks for you're reply, I have tried changing the setting within that window of preferences with no luck.

An example of what I mean, If my mouse pointer is in the pan box (I have not clicked on the pan parameter) if I try and scroll the mixer the pan parameter changes. This means every time I want to scroll I have to position the mouse pointer somewhere where there is no parameters.

Ideally I would like to disable the mouse wheel on all knobs/sliders and faders like you can with volume and fade, or at least only make it adjust a parameter after clicking the parameter in question.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:00 am
by knitsudge
That feature (or lack there of) is my single biggest Cubase complaint.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:31 am
by djstyleee
knitsudge wrote:That feature (or lack there of) is my single biggest Cubase complaint.
Yeah, it is stopping me purchasing it, I don't think I could get used to it. Do you think it is something Steinberg will implement in the future?

I use Logic Pro X and Pro Tools at the moment, Cubase seems like it has the best of both these applications, so I guess I will have to watch this space.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:10 am
by knitsudge
djstyleee wrote:
knitsudge wrote:That feature (or lack there of) is my single biggest Cubase complaint.
Yeah, it is stopping me purchasing it, I don't think I could get used to it. Do you think it is something Steinberg will implement in the future?

I use Logic Pro X and Pro Tools at the moment, Cubase seems like it has the best of both these applications, so I guess I will have to watch this space.
I can only hope Steinberg will maybe this element optional/tweakable in the next release(s). No idea if they will. I use Cubase for most compositional work and idea demos and I love it for that. But I always mix in Pro Tools and it's mainly because of this issue (plus the lack of mixer undo). I just can't roll with the workflow... We will watch this space together.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:11 am
by curteye
djstyleee wrote:I have demoed Cubase several times and really like it but theres one thing I just cannot get used to. I use a magic mouse and if I am say in the mixer, and want to scroll across the mixer if I am anywhere near pan or sends etc I end up adjusting that parameter, same for up/down scrolling on faders. I do not have this problem in any other applications I use. Even close to a parameter for a split second and it is active, is there anyway to disable or adjust this setting, I would rather knob/fader scrolling only to be active after I have actually clicked on that particular parameter or when hovering over the actual knob/line etc or even not at all. The fader could be at the very bottom, I could be at the very top and right over the other side of the channel and it still moves the fader when scrolling.
Is there any preference settings or workarounds for this? I have messed around with the 'controls' in prefs but they didn't help. Surely I am not the only person who dislikes this?
Aloha d,

There is a free app called 'Better TouchTool' that allows the user to do some
additional fine grained tweaking on your specific input device (mouse/trackpad etc).

http://www.bettertouchtool.net/

It may (or may not) be helpful to you but in any event it is free.

Good Luck!
{'-'}

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:18 pm
by pc-eater
No way and unbelievably annoying!


Peter

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:23 pm
by ulesto
+1 for 'Disable parameter change with mouse wheel' preference!

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:34 pm
by richlum
+1
My biggest annoyance.
An annoyance that is exacerbated by the fact that CTRL-Z won't undo whatever move you accidentally made.
It will undo something you did a few minutes earlier. Hopefully you realise and hit CTRL-SHIFT-Z, otherwise you just undid something you didn't mean to.
You then need to try and workout which fader you moved and what it was set at before.

Re: Magic Mouse in Cubase?

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:09 pm
by djstyleee
curteye wrote:
djstyleee wrote:I have demoed Cubase several times and really like it but theres one thing I just cannot get used to. I use a magic mouse and if I am say in the mixer, and want to scroll across the mixer if I am anywhere near pan or sends etc I end up adjusting that parameter, same for up/down scrolling on faders. I do not have this problem in any other applications I use. Even close to a parameter for a split second and it is active, is there anyway to disable or adjust this setting, I would rather knob/fader scrolling only to be active after I have actually clicked on that particular parameter or when hovering over the actual knob/line etc or even not at all. The fader could be at the very bottom, I could be at the very top and right over the other side of the channel and it still moves the fader when scrolling.
Is there any preference settings or workarounds for this? I have messed around with the 'controls' in prefs but they didn't help. Surely I am not the only person who dislikes this?
Aloha d,

There is a free app called 'Better TouchTool' that allows the user to do some
additional fine grained tweaking on your specific input device (mouse/trackpad etc).

http://www.bettertouchtool.net/

It may (or may not) be helpful to you but in any event it is free.

Good Luck!
{'-'}
Thanks, I will check this out and post my results.

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:05 am
by Rotund
Use the mixer configurations assigned to key commands for scrolling horizontally. Scrolling the racks vertically can take a while to get used to. You can only really do it in the empty spaces and this becomes problematic on large, busy projects. I do not use the Channel Strip section in the mixer at all. I keep it closed at all times because of this. When I do use the channel strip, I only edit it in the edit channel window. This plus the broken "bring mixer to front" key command and the lack of info displayed without hovering almost had me switching daws. It has been years now...since Cubase 7/Nuendo 6.

Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:42 pm
by vanpapeer
One of the popular complaints about Cubase Pro 8 was that the scroll wheel on the mouse affects faders in the mixer when trying to move up to see inserts and such, and I wonder if that issue was fixed properly on the 8.0.20 version..

This may be a little off topic, but, at the Cubase Pro 8 seminar, the German developer said that the Mix-undo function is not going to happen any time soon. And there is a very good reason for that.

If and when that is implemented, it seems like it will take a lot more computing power to achieve that.
Which is bad news for people with lower-grade CPU/GPUs.
I am not a professional, so what I remember is him talking something about along the lines of "limited buffer size"(?).

And another guy in the audience asked if it's in any way possible to follow the Adobe Photoshop Action History function (which is quite interesting), and the developer told us that it doesn't work that way :(

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:23 pm
by richlum
vanpapeer wrote: This may be a little off topic, but, at the Cubase Pro 8 seminar, the German developer said that the Mix-undo function is not going to happen any time soon. And there is a very good reason for that.

If and when that is implemented, it seems like it will take a lot more computing power to achieve that.
Which is bad news for people with lower-grade CPU/GPUs.
I am not a professional, so what I remember is him talking something about along the lines of "limited buffer size"(?).
(
Other DAWs seem to have worked out a way to provide mixer undo without taxing the CPU (at least not to any noticeable degree that impacts the user experience).
Granted the Cubase mixer is not the same as other DAW mixers, but it seems strange that other DAWs have no problems implementing mixer undo

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:06 am
by karlito
This may be a little off topic, but, at the Cubase Pro 8 seminar, the German developer said that the Mix-undo function is not going to happen any time soon. And there is a very good reason for that.

If and when that is implemented, it seems like it will take a lot more computing power to achieve that.
I am sorry but this makes no sense.

No offense to you, absolutely not, but you may have misunderstood him, or he was not really a developer but maybe a sales person. If he was indeed a developer and you did not misunderstand, this is pure and simple BS.

The undo stack does not need to be computed but simply stored in the memory and then recalled on demand, that means it is not a process that needs to run in parallel with anything. The memory usage for undo may have been a concern 20 years ago when every kilobyte had to be wisely used, but the CPU processing has and never had anything to do with it.

For an application like Cubase the amount of RAM needed for the undo stack will be absolutely negligible given the fact that nowadays everybody has gigabytes of RAM installed, especially when we're talking about the mixer and the fact that it's mostly knobs and fader changes we would like to be able to undo/redo.

Most of the values that the mixer or a vst are changing are either booleans (the solo button for example = 8 bytes), integers ( transpose for example, which require 16 bytes memory space) or floats (faders and knobs = 32 bytes) . This means that 1 measly megabyte could store 125000 boolean solo on/off changes, 62500 transpose changes or 31250 fader value changes for the undo stack. Of course I am oversimplifying, but only a little.

Things like adding or removing a vst will obviously take a little more space in RAM, since Cubase will also have to remember the action triggered and the values of every non-default knob of the plugin that was manipulated, but still nothing to be worried about. Of course all this doubles up, because if the application can undo, it also needs to be able to redo a change.

Real computational and memory heavy applications like the 3D apps out there (Maya, Softimage etc) can undo/redo literally millions of changes. Should this ever become an issue, they do provide an undo limit, meaning that the undo stack gets trimmed when the limit is reached, accommodating this way only the latest < limit changes. If this is indeed a concern, I am sure everybody would be more than happy to set the limit to say a value 100-200 undo steps. Then again, if you have 8GB of RAM you will simply not run out of it because of undo. Firefox for example uses way more RAM than Cubase would for the mixer undo, just to give you a rough idea.

Again, RAM is one aspect, but the undo definitely has nothing to do with actual performance in this case, as it's not a process that needs to run or even do any work.

I hope this sheds a little light on the matter.

Edit:
My guess is that the reason Cubase is one of the last dinosaurs that does not provide full undo is because this would never be a strong selling point for potential new users, therefore not worth the trouble. They would go "What? They did not have undo until now? What else is missing?" or "Whoop de doo, every application can and should be able to undo, big deal."
Either this, or they would literally have to rewrite Cubase because of this, which apparently they're doing once a year anyway, just for the fun of it.

It's been said that the 6.5 mixer had to go because it was so outdated. Well, the ONLY thing that was outdated about it was the lack of undo.
Does the new fluffy and bloated mixer have undo capabilities? Nope, but it sure is pretty (to some) and big.

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:54 pm
by vanpapeer
Offense none taken :)
I'm not well-informed in those fields.

But holy cow... I really appreciate your detailed answer!

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:38 am
by JT3Jon
+1 for this feature!! I just accidentally screwed up my mix because I was trying to scroll to a different channel. I really cannot believe this functionality cannot be turned off!!! PLEASE STEIN BERG ADD THIS!! Is there a better way to let them know how important a feature this is through some sort of official channel, or is this it?

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:15 am
by Rkmusic
This should be in the next update and I'm not talking about cubase 9.No need for the mouse to change values. It's like walking on shatter glass when mixing :oops:

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:53 am
by shomynik
+1

So annoying! :cry:

Is there even anybody who acually use this feature and change parameters with the mouse scroll?

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:05 pm
by CreativeRyan
+1

I have a large template and this happens quite often. I will change the parameter on a track that is currently not in use. I don't even notice the parameter change, half the time, until the track gets utilized later in my sessions.

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:39 pm
by galoz
+1
The rack area is like mined ground and the side scroll bar is too thin...
+1 obviously for mixer undo, even inside plugins theres undo for values

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:13 pm
by hesca116
+1

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:14 pm
by hesca116
djstyleee wrote:I have demoed Cubase several times and really like it but theres one thing I just cannot get used to. I use a magic mouse and if I am say in the mixer, and want to scroll across the mixer if I am anywhere near pan or sends etc I end up adjusting that parameter, same for up/down scrolling on faders. I do not have this problem in any other applications I use. Even close to a parameter for a split second and it is active, is there anyway to disable or adjust this setting, I would rather knob/fader scrolling only to be active after I have actually clicked on that particular parameter or when hovering over the actual knob/line etc or even not at all. The fader could be at the very bottom, I could be at the very top and right over the other side of the channel and it still moves the fader when scrolling.
Is there any preference settings or workarounds for this? I have messed around with the 'controls' in prefs but they didn't help. Surely I am not the only person who dislikes this?
@djstyleee I feel your pain. Navigation in the mixer is uncomfortable at best, because of this scrolling thing. SPECIALLY on small laptop monitors. Thats why I came up with these 7 alternate methods for horizontal scrolling:

1) Get the mouse cursor over the track names. In this area, horizontal scrolling DOES work with the mouse wheel.
2) The left/right arrows also work for this kind of scrolling. Not ideal, but better than risking any parameters moving unintended. There's a whole section on the manual on how to operate the mix console with the keyboard.
3) Go to "setup window layout" (the button on the top left corner of the toolbar), activate "Channel Overview". You can scroll horizontally here by click/dragging.
4) My personal favorite. Activate "Sync Mix Console and Project" (button to the right of the Visibility panel's title). Have the project window open while mixing. To scroll to a track, just select it on the project window. Voilá. No scrolling required within the mix console.
5) Use agents to filter through and find the tracks you need.
6) Create visibility configurations to work like the "mixer pages" of a digital mixer. You can even assign key commands to the 8 configurations, so you can quickly go to any combination of channels that you want.
7) Use Mix Consoles 2 and 3 to layout all your mix channels, so you don´t have to do any scrolling, just swap between mixers by laying them on different desktops (this works BEAUTIFULLY over multiple monitors too)

Re: Scrolling in Mixer modifies values

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:05 pm
by greggybud
hesca116 wrote: 7) Use Mix Consoles 2 and 3 to layout all your mix channels, so you don´t have to do any scrolling, just swap between mixers by laying them on different desktops (this works BEAUTIFULLY over multiple monitors too)
It does work beautifully.

Except there is no way to focus any mix console unless you close it and open it. This is an area where Steinberg needs to up their game for users with multiple monitors.