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Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:49 pm
by stephenuk
I have used cubase for many years now all the way back to version 2 on the Atari ST. I am still currently on PRO 8 but I have to say I am very dissapointed with the overall sound quality of Cubase to other DAWs. Yes I know people will say there is no difference its all down to mixing etc, however I have to disagree, I have also used Propellerhead Reason for many years then stopped after upgrading to PRO 8. I have struggled so much to make loud punchy mixes and have used every compressor and limiter and eq'd till I am blue in the face. When comparing to other mixes they sound dull with no punch. I can't believe every person on soundcloud is a sound engineer for one minute when the majority of dance tracks on there are probably created in ableton or logic. I also have a good set of ADAM AX5 monitors and sound treatement in my room as well. So I decided to do a test. I programed a 4x4 house beat in cubase then did the exactly same thing in Reason using the same sounds with no processing whatsover. And suprise suprise in Reason the beat stood out and sounded clean. I have noticed what you hear in the media bay of cubase sounds very different to what you hear when you drag it into an audio track. The media bay sounds fine but in cubase it sounds terrible and dull. I don't go for this panning law jargon either as after playing around with that makes no difference at all. Either I am doing something terribly wrong or either the sound engine in Cubase is an engineers nightmare. I always use reference tracks when mixing and no matter what I can never get them to have any clarity which what was a simple mix then becomes a stack of vst's trying to get it sound punchy, and like I said in reason no fx just the standard drum sounds, sound create by default. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed the issue but I have been persevering with cubase pro 8 for 2 years now to not much avail. So i'm at a cross road upgrade to cubase pro 9 for nearly 200 quid or upgrade from Reason 6.5 to 9.5 for a 100 quid

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:49 pm
by soundpeaks_net
dude, you are pathetic. I saw people making great sounding music in Renoise! Renoise, Carl! It's god dаmn TRACKER!!1

But anyway, I must say - nobody cares about your whining. GL.

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:19 pm
by stephenuk
Oh yeah I made many good tracks even in fast tracker thats exactly the point crisp sample playback, whats going on with the muffled sound quality audio in cubase.

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:45 pm
by stephenuk
An example in the video below of the very low audio volumes compared to system wide volume.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-DQInS ... e=youtu.be

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:51 pm
by soundpeaks_net
stephenuk wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:45 pm
...
Did you know it matters where you click in Groove Agent? It's velocity sensitive. The higher you click the louder is sound.

Image

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:02 am
by stephenuk
Hi soundpeaks, yeah i know but even when I set the velocity levels to say 127 in the editor the volume is still a lot lower than the sample in another editor etc, it really has me baffled its only since after cubase 6 it seemed to be like this and I have no idea why :(

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:14 am
by soundpeaks_net
I think something with settings in Windows Audio \ driver. But definitely not with Cubase. I have just made totally the same experiment as you did. But I put audio on a new audio track. Sound levels are equal. (Winamp vs Cubase)

Do you know for sure Windows Media Player doesn't have some regain\120% volume?

I know a good way to make track loud.
1) make a premaster group track and use all final inserts (iZotope Ozone) on it.
2) put a reference track right in your project and route it into Stereo Master

now you can easily compare your track and reference

push up to the limits your track as much as loud you want it to be

if you can't than there is some mixing issues and need to fix that

also modern dudes frequently uses 2-3 maximizers on a master to make it really really loud

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:36 am
by stephenuk
I've tried the same sounds on winamp and its the same volume as windows media player. I try not to mix too hot because i wanna leave headroom for the main master but I really have to slam the master and then you get squashed dynamics, i've uploaded a vid of what i mean like at 0 db its still pretty quiet but then i put the master chain on its obviously perceived louder but still very low when compared to other tracks i've done in other daws etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TgzUe_ ... e=youtu.be

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:16 am
by soundpeaks_net
stephenuk wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:36 am
I've tried the same sounds on winamp and its the same volume as windows ...
can you share your cubase project?

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:12 pm
by stephenuk
soundpeaks_net wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:16 am
stephenuk wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:36 am
I've tried the same sounds on winamp and its the same volume as windows ...
can you share your cubase project?
Pm'd you m8

I've also just imported a track into cubase then compared it to being played in a player and again its louder in the 2 different players. Really can't get my head around this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BBFTh ... e=youtu.be

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 pm
by Grim
Something going on in Control room perhaps?

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:27 am
by Dirx
Grim wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 pm
Something going on in Control room perhaps?
Yes, or some Insert. Channel level Meter peaking, Master level is way lower.

Mmh, I watch it on my mobile, but seems like no Inserts, maybe channel gain, or channel strip plugin.

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:04 pm
by soundpeaks_net
stephenuk wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:12 pm
...
:D :D :D :D :D

Mate, you have -6 GAIN on your master

:D :D :D :D :D

I a really was confused before I found that :D

And also I think the default Project Settings should be: Stereo Pan Law - Equal power and Volume Max +12 Db but that's not your issue, I think. I don't know who\what turn down gain at you master. That's why everything sounds pretty quieter than other players\DAWs.

UPD
Now I see that you have iZotope on post-fader position and maybe you did that for mastering purposes,

But, if throw away all plugins, drop in DRY Kick its volume gonna be 0 Db. And on Master it will be 0 Db. And the same volume will have player (WInamp\WMP) that will play that audio sample. I will make a small video for you.

UPD2:
And also I told you making mastering on Stereo Out is a bad idea, cuz everything in Cubase plays through Stereo Out. So if you are listening Media Library or reference track or loops in Goove Agent - everything gets affected (-6 Db in your case).

Re: Leaving Cubase

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:17 pm
by stephenuk
Hi Soundspeaks

I will definatley look into that also massive thanks for looking into it much appreciated :)