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Control room / outputs

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:12 pm
by yinonyahel
is it possible in cubase to use different outputs and send it to Final BUS ?

Cubase 8.5

Thanks !

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:59 pm
by Robert Schulz
One Output-Bus is at least the final instance of where the signal flow, which you can apply within Cubase, is going to end in the use of Cubase. But I don´t know what You want to do, so there is the possibility to create Sub-Groups, in Cubase named "Group Tracks".

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:03 pm
by matjones
If you mean physical outputs then, depending on your hardware, yes. Just route the required track/s to the appropriate physical out/s, into and back out of whatever hardware you're using and then back into your interface either individually or via some kind of summing device to new audio track/s which can then be routed in the same way as any other audio track.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:22 pm
by yinonyahel
I obviously use group tracks . i find a significant different when i send the "groups" to the BUS outputs . i use Orion 32+ and i can loop back and use a summing device but my question is , if there is a "Super Bus" option to send internally all the outputs to a one outputs . as much as I know , there is no option like this .

I took out the Kick from the "drum group" to a different output and the mix breath much better . i have a feeling and maybe i'm wrong and maybe because i work loud , that when it is on a different output it sounds much better .

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:29 pm
by Robert Schulz
Do you mean it sounds better on an different physical (other monitor) or software-internally Output? Maybe you just need to get a better transparency in your Mix. Seperate the Frequencies of the Kick Drum accuratly and then Cut off all the Frequencies, which disturb the Kick´s spectrum or try to get in a Side-Chaining Compressor, or look what Phase Inversion on the Kick Drum does.

You actually even got the Option to export and create two different Mixdowns, One is made by the first Output, and the other by a Second.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:24 am
by yinonyahel
We are actually a group of producers . we do check the phase issues , clear the the frequencies and side chaining by frequencies and when ever is necessary doing general side chaining . we all think there is a difference but we all might be wrong :)

just to give you a clear picture , we are all in this business for a long time with credits for madonna , christina aguilera alot of spinning records releases and more ... but as everybody searching for the perfect sound and trying to learn the technical matters more deep as we all learn pretty much from experience .

so i'm trying to understand , maybe its' the fact we work high on the mix and maybe we kill the headroom ? anyway , it works better with our method with a different output .

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:55 pm
by Robert Schulz
yinonyahel wrote:is it possible in cubase to use different outputs and send it to Final BUS ?
You can send the Signal of One or multiple Output(s) to another Output in Cubase. Tried it now. It works. Don´t know, if this answer your question.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:48 pm
by yinonyahel
Could you please send me a screen shot ? all i see here on my output is "NO TARGET" option .
that would be exactly what i'm looking for

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:00 pm
by Robert Schulz
You can do this with a detour: First go to "VST Instruments"-Window and you must have at least a minimum of two Output-Busses (doesn´t matter which Configuration, e.g. 5.1, Stereo,...), but the Second must hold the Capacity of the Audio-Tracks which are in the first, of course. This means it should have the same Channel-Configuration as the First Bus or even higher. Remember what i here mean is the Chronologic way! 1=Stereo Out 2, 2= Stereo Out 1.

I would prefer for this demonstrating way, two Stereo Output-Busses.

So now made two Stereo-Output-Busses in the "VST-Connections"-Window.

Now, and this is for any weird thing i can´t explain important, Set the Second Stereo-Output-Bus(Stereo Out 2) as the Main-Mix-Bus (Right Mouse-Click on the Stereo Output-Bus 2 into the Context-Menu and klick on "Set Stereo Out 2 as Main Mix")


Now if you close the "VST-Connections"-Window and go back to the Project-View, set all your Audio-, Group-, Effect-Return-, Instrument-Tracks as Output to the Stereo Out 2-Output Bus.


After this add another Audiotrack, in the Configuration as the Stereo Out 2 was, in this Example, a Stereo-Audiotrack.

Very important is here, when you create this Stereo-Audiotrack that the Output of it, isn´t routed in the Output to Stereo Out 2.

You can route now the Signal from the First Stereo Output, Stereo Out 2 into the Input of this Audio-track and the Output to
Stereo Out 1.


It´s complicated, even because you must understand, that 1 and 2, isn´t here on a weird thing chronologic 1 and 2.

Hope, I could help you, when you have resolved my brain teaser/mystery.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:40 pm
by yinonyahel
I'm not sure i really understand , you mean to make 2 or 10 busses and send all of them but one to an audio track's input ?
then for i will hear it as a monitor and it will be directed to the audio track's output ?

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:52 pm
by Grim
I think you're wasting your time with this.

If you are summing outputs inside of Cubase why would it sound any different than the summing of channels/groups within Cubase.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:41 pm
by yinonyahel
when you're trying to leave your home through your door alone it would be easy to get out , when you're trying to get out from your door with another 300 people , it will be a bit more complicated . i got this example from a good friend who actually understand the physics more than me , so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:44 pm
by Robert Schulz
Understood?

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:58 pm
by Robert Schulz
yinonyahel wrote:I'm not sure i really understand , you mean to make 2 or 10 busses and send all of them but one to an audio track's input ? then for i will hear it as a monitor and it will be directed to the audio track's output ?
Just read it through another time. Create any other Bus, than the normal first Stereo Out as new Main-Mix- Bus. Then send all of your Audio-containing Tracks to this New Stereo Out-Bus. Now you can set this Stereo Out 2- Bus AS the Input-Source of another Audio-Track, which is for itself in the Output routed to Stereo-Out 1.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:30 am
by Grim
so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
Well how exactly did you try it....how was your kick on a separate out mixed back into Cubase? If you summed outside then this is more likely the reson for your perceived improvement....or perhaps the way that stereo bus processing reacted without the kick in the mix??

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:56 am
by svennilenni
yinonyahel wrote:when you're trying to leave your home through your door alone it would be easy to get out , when you're trying to get out from your door with another 300 people , it will be a bit more complicated . i got this example from a good friend who actually understand the physics more than me , so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
The shortcoming of this analogy is - if you and the 300 other people want to become a stereo file, you have to get through that one door, otherwise they can´t be mixed down, but will stay a group of 301 people running out of different outputs, which would need one single speker for every group.
yinonyahel wrote:so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
Then ther must have been something wrong before, as Grim has pointed out already...
yinonyahel wrote:maybe its' the fact we work high on the mix and maybe we kill the headroom ?

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:52 am
by yinonyahel
Grim wrote:
so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
Well how exactly did you try it....how was your kick on a separate out mixed back into Cubase? If you summed outside then this is more likely the reson for your perceived improvement....or perhaps the way that stereo bus processing reacted without the kick in the mix??
I export the busses and return it into cubase in a new project and then export the file . compared it to the same setup on the same bus each project i do and always sounds better to me.

again , i'm speaking from experience of a group of people with major hits worldwide , locally in my country and worldwide EDM hits . doesn't say much then our own opinion and the fact we always try to upgrade outself.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:56 am
by yinonyahel
svennilenni wrote:
yinonyahel wrote:when you're trying to leave your home through your door alone it would be easy to get out , when you're trying to get out from your door with another 300 people , it will be a bit more complicated . i got this example from a good friend who actually understand the physics more than me , so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
The shortcoming of this analogy is - if you and the 300 other people want to become a stereo file, you have to get through that one door, otherwise they can´t be mixed down, but will stay a group of 301 people running out of different outputs, which would need one single speker for every group.
yinonyahel wrote:so i've tried this method of using another bus and it made my mixes better .
Then ther must have been something wrong before, as Grim has pointed out already...
yinonyahel wrote:maybe its' the fact we work high on the mix and maybe we kill the headroom ?
the example of 300 people was just to explain the situation , but if you'll export stems lets say , drums , instruments , guitars ,bass and vocals , there will be less intensity on the output .

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:18 am
by Raphie
As long as you stay ITB, it doesn't matter how you route, or break it up, unless you process different groups differently.
It's VIRTUAL Studio Technologie, there is no "logical" "physical" path ITB The computer doesn't care about summing 5 or 500 channels, it's the same maths.

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:51 pm
by Robert Schulz
Anyhow, Does the described Way work by you?

Re: Control room / outputs

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:41 pm
by yinonyahel
krissi wrote:Anyhow, Does the described Way work by you?
I got some dead lines here . i'll check it out as soon as i can .

Thanks !