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Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:36 pm
by GvdB
Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility with multiple workstations/studios/rooms to different performers possible?

This applies to a secured corporate studio facility network.

I did a test and had to enable port-forwarding in order for VST connect to create the connection. Video was transmitted without the forwarding, but the sync remained red without port-forwarding enabled.

I am not in the position to created the complete testscenario with multiple workstations (yet), nor would I want to try if it doesn't work. Better to inquire the info from the experts/developers.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:59 pm
by dr
I assume you are talking about multiple "studio" computers on the same LAN connecting to multiple REMOTE performers over the internet ?

This 'should' work fine BUT the issue could well be your "secure corporate studio facility network" !

A 'basic' firewall/router will just NAT the various addresses/ports involved and all 'should' be well....but that's not happening on your network. You enabled port forwarding and it worked (which ports assume those high numbered ones mentioned in the docs...or was it all ...i.e. a DMZ ?). This means it's very likely firewall/router is blocking some ports and that's gonna cause problems using multiple sessions.

Are you looking after the network yourself ?

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:47 pm
by GvdB
Both assumptions are correct.

We forwarded 5111-51113.

I am in direct contact with the firewall admin, so we can make alterations, but these need to be simple rules which we can turn on/off between sessions.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:19 pm
by dr
I suspect the rule is "do not block/filter 51111-51113"

Your situation is a bit more 'edge case' than most so you are going to have to experiment a bit. Strictly speaking this isn't a VST connect issue but a firewall config issue.

Let us know if your test works - be interesting to see - and to see if we can up with solutions if it doesn't

FWIW suspect video uses more standard ports that your firewall/router doesn't care about which is why that part works.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:22 pm
by musicullum
It is black and white, it either works or not. Not quite sure what you try to acheive; multiple *simultaneous* connections are not supported at all.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:24 pm
by dr
musicullum wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:22 pm
It is black and white, it either works or not. Not quite sure what you try to acheive; multiple *simultaneous* connections are not supported at all.
something along the lines of ....

The facilities has 10 cubase workstations all on the same LAN - all need to work with external performers over the internet. So it's NOT multiple connections to ONE host...it's multiple connections to multiple hosts.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:17 pm
by musicullum
That won't work unless you have 10 seperate internet connections, or make sure that only one station is connected at a time. It would probably get confused as it is to be expected that the network provides messages from all performers to all studios, if this is at all possible.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:28 pm
by GvdB
Ok, clear. Thanks. It would be an interesting scenario with the current Covid situation.

Maybe with VPN's. It would make the setup too complex for the average joe then...

Maybe making the ports configurable? Then each room can use different ports.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:32 pm
by dr
musicullum wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:17 pm
That won't work unless you have 10 seperate internet connections, or make sure that only one station is connected at a time. It would probably get confused as it is to be expected that the network provides messages from all performers to all studios, if this is at all possible.
I understand why that 'might' not work on the LAN because of the way it broadcasts locally...but why not over the internet to multiple clients ? You use some kind of gatekeeper (?) that provides ID - then this just NATs back to each computer ? Where would the 'confusion' arise ?

Isn't that like saying "only one person could use Zoom" ?

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:35 pm
by dr
GvdB wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Maybe making the ports configurable? Then each room can use different ports.
I really think that the "same ports" is a red herring....your issue is going to be the blocked ports of course...but on a more simple setup then I don't see why VST connect would behave differently from every other network application ?

I mean you don't have to limit your web surfing to one computer at once because it is using port 443/80 ? The router takes care of all that.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:23 pm
by GvdB
Hmm you've got a point, but that's probably why the video side made a NAT connection (which actually shouldn't be allowed on the network, but was just a reckless try of mine, but that's another point), but the audio needs to run over 51111-51113?

Musicullum?

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:35 am
by dr
If I get chance I'll test it later

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:49 am
by musicullum
dr wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:32 pm
musicullum wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:17 pm
That won't work unless you have 10 seperate internet connections, or make sure that only one station is connected at a time. It would probably get confused as it is to be expected that the network provides messages from all performers to all studios, if this is at all possible.
I understand why that 'might' not work on the LAN because of the way it broadcasts locally...but why not over the internet to multiple clients ? You use some kind of gatekeeper (?) that provides ID - then this just NATs back to each computer ? Where would the 'confusion' arise ?

Isn't that like saying "only one person could use Zoom" ?
Sure, it's a snitch to set up some advanced server structure with ID processing, NAT resolvers, load balancers, relay servers, edge computers...
I will ask the Zoom guys how much that will be :-)
Seriously, it sure can be done, but we are not Zoom.
Nevertheless as said, we are working on a tech which would allow for multiple listeners, but not multiple connections to one IP.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:01 am
by dr
Just tested this and it falls over - as musi says, the gatekeeper only allows one login per originating IP address. So anybody else logging in on the LAN (via same public IP) effectively logs out the existing user.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:17 pm
by GvdB
Thanks for testing!

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 am
by Suprawill1
Hi,
Was just listening in on this conversation. I have VST Connect but hadn't ventured to use it yet, but interested.
As far as this multiple VST connection, does each connection have to have a specific IP address? If one logs the other out if joining in on the LAN with the same IP, what if the second joining party one hides the IP address, say through a VPN? I'm not fully privy of this technology yet but just throwing it out there.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:44 am
by dr
Suprawill1 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:16 am
Hi,
Was just listening in on this conversation. I have VST Connect but hadn't ventured to use it yet, but interested.
As far as this multiple VST connection, does each connection have to have a specific IP address? If one logs the other out if joining in on the LAN with the same IP, what if the second joining party one hides the IP address, say through a VPN? I'm not fully privy of this technology yet but just throwing it out there.
hi - not sure you are talking about the same thing ?

VST connect is a one-to-one technology - you CAN NOT have multiple performers connecting to one cubase/nuendo session.

This thread is about the possibility of having multiple Cubase/Nuendo computers on the same network with remote clients.....

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:59 am
by Suprawill1
dr wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:44 am

hi - not sure you are talking about the same thing ?

VST connect is a one-to-one technology - you CAN NOT have multiple performers connecting to one cubase/nuendo session.

This thread is about the possibility of having multiple Cubase/Nuendo computers on the same network with remote clients.....
Hi dr
I understand that as I have read through this thread. From what I could read though, it looked like you and GvdB were experimenting on how to connect more than one client to a host studio. My previous post was based on your test in your last post that you said had failed. Maybe I mistook the reasoning.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:08 am
by dr
Suprawill1 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:59 am
dr wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:44 am

hi - not sure you are talking about the same thing ?

VST connect is a one-to-one technology - you CAN NOT have multiple performers connecting to one cubase/nuendo session.

This thread is about the possibility of having multiple Cubase/Nuendo computers on the same network with remote clients.....
Hi dr
I understand that as I have read through this thread. From what I could read though, it looked like you and GvdB were experimenting on how to connect more than one client to a host studio. My previous post was based on your test in your last post that you said had failed. Maybe I mistook the reasoning.
ahhh ok - A VPN may fool the system - worth a test ?

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 4:07 am
by Suprawill1
dr wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:08 am


ahhh ok - A VPN may fool the system - worth a test ?
Precisely. I'm not up and running or I'd test the theory with you. Maybe you and GvdB could?

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:54 pm
by JacksonWraight
musicullum wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:49 am
dr wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:32 pm
musicullum wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:17 pm
That won't work unless you have 10 seperate internet connections, or make sure that only one station is connected at a time. It would probably get confused as it is to be expected that the network provides messages from all performers to all studios, if this is at all possible.
I understand why that 'might' not work on the LAN because of the way it broadcasts locally...but why not over the internet to multiple clients ? You use some kind of gatekeeper (?) that provides ID - then this just NATs back to each computer ? Where would the 'confusion' arise ?

Isn't that like saying "only one person could use Zoom" ?
Sure, it's a snitch to set up some advanced server structure with ID processing, NAT resolvers, load balancers, relay servers, edge computers...
I will ask the Zoom guys how much that will be :-)
Seriously, it sure can be done, but we are not Zoom.
Nevertheless as said, we are working on a tech which would allow for multiple listeners, but not multiple connections to one IP.
I'm glad you added the multiple listeners functionality to VST Connect Pro, However still hoping for a Single host to multiple performers option. With the rise in work-from-home and hybrid events, being able to host for multiple performers brings a level of collaboration that would corner the market.

I imagine a Host record at a festival front of house that allows for multiple remote locations to add to the performance. OR Capturing and distributing a Stream of multiple performers in the comfort of their homes/studios to a live and/or virtual audiences.

Re: Multiple VST Connect connections from 1 facility possible?

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:44 am
by musicullum
second duplicate of viewtopic.php?p=1038496#p1038496, pls do not post the same message to multiple threads, it makes following and supporting the forum diffcult and takes time that we would like to save for developing improvements, thanks.