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LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:34 pm
by alanharvey
I have a Windows 10 PC with a trial licence of VST Connect Pro 4.0.40.180. I have two Windows 10 laptops with VST Connect Performer 4.0.40. They are all hardwired on my LAN and other network functionality is normal.

Neither laptop shows the VST Connect Pro machine as being available to connect. The 'LAN button' in the VST Connect Performer machines does not illuminate as described in the manual and clicking on it has no effect.

I suspect there is a problem with the VST Connect Pro machine. The reason for testing on the LAN is that I cannot maintain sync with a remote recording session despite have fast and stable internet (64Mb/s down, 17Mb/s up both ends) and I am trying to diagnose the problem. I have tried disabling Kaspersky Internet Security on the machines to no effect.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I so want this to work but after a week of struggling with this I'm close to giving up.

Thanks
Alan

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:51 pm
by dr
just guessing - possibly a windows firewall problem ?

is this the same laptops are you are using for the remote (internet) test ?

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:36 pm
by alanharvey
Windows Firewall is turned off on the Pro m/c. It has Kaspersky Internet Security with a firewall but I disabled that to no effect. One of the laptops also has Kaspersky and the other has Malware Bytes. I disabled all of it for just long enough to run a test. No luck.

The 'remote machine for the internet test was a Mac. The symptom there was intermittently getting a 'Performer' red sync light when on playback and immediately every time I tried to record, whatever I did with stream speeds.

With the big machine running SE and a laptop tethered to my iPhone I got exactly the same symptoms. Connection speed from the tethered laptop was 16.3 Mb/s down and 12.7 Mb/s up.

My idea was to run the LAN test to prove conclusively that the issue was with the 'Pro' machine. I so want it to work and I will certainly buy the Pro licence if it does, but I've been frustrated at every step with this.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:47 pm
by dr
a LAN test sounds like a sensible plan - at least that's what I'd have done.

Are you definitely running PRO on the studio PC. There are two different plugins: PRO and SE - just having the licence on the dongle isn't enough.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:53 pm
by alanharvey
Definitely running Pro. There are two options in VST Cloud on my Cubase 10.5, SE and Pro. It says Pro at the bottom of the Connect window.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:09 pm
by dr
running out of ideas now - I'll give it a try on the LAN later if I get chance

FWIW there is a newer version on connectvst.com (clutching at straws obviously)

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:26 pm
by alanharvey
Thanks. I've upgraded both Connect Pro and Performer to the very latest 4.0.41.215. No change.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm
by musicullum
LAN connection has never ever failed on me, and no such reports at all, that‘s weird. router needs to allow udp broadcast, this usually even works within highly restricted company networks. You know you must not log in on either end, just run both sides and then the blue button appears on the Performer, right?

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:48 pm
by dr
musicullum wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm
LAN connection has never ever failed on me, and no such reports at all, that‘s weird. router needs to allow udp broadcast, this usually even works within highly restricted company networks. You know you must not log in on either end, just run both sides and then the blue button appears on the Performer, right?
same here - LAN has always worked - what's odd is that this is the same PCs, the same router/network that allows studio/performer to connect over the internet ?

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:20 pm
by alanharvey
dr wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:48 pm
musicullum wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm
LAN connection has never ever failed on me, and no such reports at all, that‘s weird. router needs to allow udp broadcast, this usually even works within highly restricted company networks. You know you must not log in on either end, just run both sides and then the blue button appears on the Performer, right?
same here - LAN has always worked - what's odd is that this is the same PCs, the same router/network that allows studio/performer to connect over the internet ?
Thanks for the input gentlemen. Yes I did realise that neither end should be logged in. Yes it is the same PCs network and router that allow connection over the internet. I'll check the UDP broadcast thing now. It's a standard BT router.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:58 pm
by alanharvey
Update: I could find no option to enable/disable UDP broadcast in the router. I had a port forwarding rule mapping and redirecting port 443 from the internet in the router. I removed it and restarted Connect and Performer. No change.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:46 pm
by dr
restricting udp would be a bit odd - plus if it's a basic BT router can't imagine you can do that much to it ?

I do think there is something odd/unusual in any firewalls you have on the PCs that block traffic but on only on the same subnet ? - I know you are using Kaspersky but try disabling the windows defender firewall too ?

arguably this the problem you are actually trying to solve is the lack of sync when you are using over the internet so usual checks are for this are:

- are you wired both ends
- what buffer settings etc
- increase "remote delay"
- have you tried with a totally blank/new project
-update to latest version on connectvst.com

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:17 pm
by alanharvey
dr wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:46 pm
restricting udp would be a bit odd - plus if it's a basic BT router can't imagine you can do that much to it ?

I do think there is something odd/unusual in any firewalls you have on the PCs that block traffic but on only on the same subnet ? - I know you are using Kaspersky but try disabling the windows defender firewall too ?

arguably this the problem you are actually trying to solve is the lack of sync when you are using over the internet so usual checks are for this are:

- are you wired both ends
- what buffer settings etc
- increase "remote delay"
- have you tried with a totally blank/new project
-update to latest version on connectvst.com
Regarding the LAN connection failure:-
Yep standard BT router.
Firewalls: I've tried specifically opening ports 51111-51113 for UDP both ways on all firewalls - no change. Then I tried totally disabling all firewalls on both the studio and performer machines - no change. Still no LAN connection possible.

Regarding the 'proper' remote session issues:-
The previous sessions I was running SE. Next attempt will be with Pro at my end.
Wired both ends
Buffer was fixed at 447 IIRC. I couldn't change it
Didn't try increased remote delay - will do in next test
We were at the latest version both ends when we ran the test. A new one has come out since then. The next test will use that.

I think I'm going to have to try to remember how to use Wireshark...

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:28 pm
by dr
alanharvey wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:17 pm

I think I'm going to have to try to remember how to use Wireshark...
good luck :)

let us know what happens on the next text....I'm hoping the feedback and debugging will help others

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:08 pm
by alanharvey
OK Chaps, I've got Wireshark running on a laptop monitoring my LAN. I've got VST Connect running on the Studio machine and I've got VST Connect Performer running on another laptop. Latest versions. What should I be seeing because nothing seems to be happening between the two VST machines?

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:15 pm
by musicullum
can't help on such a low level, sorry.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:56 pm
by dr
alanharvey wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:08 pm
OK Chaps, I've got Wireshark running on a laptop monitoring my LAN. I've got VST Connect running on the Studio machine and I've got VST Connect Performer running on another laptop. Latest versions. What should I be seeing because nothing seems to be happening between the two VST machines?
I'd assume you'd see broadcast packets from the Studio machine ?

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:44 pm
by alanharvey
I need to re-learn Wireshark. There are some broadcast packets coming out of the Connect machine but they might not be the right ones. No responses from the Performer machine evident. I’ll try again tomorrow from a better informed position, I hope.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:12 pm
by alanharvey
Well I can see UDP packets going out from the Connect m/c to the Performer m/c and responses going back but still no action. That's it. I'm outta here. So much promise and so little delivery.
Bye

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:08 pm
by dr
just checked today - and I know it's of zero help but connected fine on my LAN (windows to windows) - so something that is more specific to your network ?

Did find as strange bug though - as soon as I started a VST connect performer on a PC on my LAN it immediately kicked off the internet session I had running - Closed down the VST connect performer but that upset the Studio plug - had to remove and reinsert it.

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:36 pm
by alanharvey
dr wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:08 pm
just checked today - and I know it's of zero help but connected fine on my LAN (windows to windows) - so something that is more specific to your network ?

Did find as strange bug though - as soon as I started a VST connect performer on a PC on my LAN it immediately kicked off the internet session I had running - Closed down the VST connect performer but that upset the Studio plug - had to remove and reinsert it.
Thanks dr for your interest and input. However after more than 3 full days of trying to make it work I really can’t proceed with this. I had intended to make up two portable ‘remote’ systems, each with a laptop, half-decent 2 channel interface and a set of headphones. These would get shipped out to band members currently in Coronavirus self-isolation so that we could continue with a current project, stave off boredom and have some fun. These are guys whose considerable talents ‘lie in areas other than IT’ so giving them something flaky would be a total waste of money and time. Compared to functionality of the rest of Cubase this is extremely disappointing.

Alan

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:46 pm
by dr
hi Alan

totally understand - I'm not saying vstconnect is perfect, far (very far!) from it - it can be totally frustrating and annoying - full of irritating bugs and 'gotcha's', but I believe that the very, very small team developing it are committed to get this working with no real support from SB as a whole. It has languished in the 'forgotten' drawer for such a long time.

I've used it with people who have no tech skills whatsoever - it can be done - I'm posting here so much because, I hope, with the input of the community and the developers (who post here !), that we can fix the issues and get this working more reliably.

if you wanna PM me, I'm happy to try a remote session and see what happens ?

don't give up just yet :)

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:41 pm
by -steve-
I had a look using Wireshark on my Mac, that's really an advanced tool without guidance for a layman user, but I did see packets on port 51113 going between the ip addresses corresponding to the mac and and my PC, when I initiated a VST Connect session.

I would presume if the data isn't being passed something else is going on in your network.

Also, something worth noting is that there is more than speed to consider concerning the quality of a network connection, the 'behind the scenes' data management itself, done by the the computers and routers has overhead that increases on poor connections. So a good focus for troubleshooting would on improving the connections, eg., use an Ethernet cable to connect the computers to their respective routers, restarting the router, the cable modem etc...

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:35 pm
by alanharvey
OK Chaps, I've slept on it and come back for another go. Thanks for the encouragement.

Steve: I do have quite a complex network here, including a managed switch. I had checked the configuration of that but just to eliminate it I tried a direct cable connection between the Performer and Connect machines, obviously just the two machines, fixed ip addresses, sharing enabled etc. The machines could 'see' each other and file transfer both ways worked fine. STILL the Performer machine did not detect the Connect machine, no LAN light. I uninstalled Performer, rebooted, re-installed - no change. Re-installed Pro - no change. It doesn't appear to be my network stopping it working...

Very interestingly I did not see packets on ports 51111-51113 when I tried the LAN connection with Wireshark running. I ran Wireshark on the Connect machine, the Performer machine and a standalone machine. There was traffic on other ports in the 5000 range. I used to play with this stuff a bit, a long time ago. As reference was made to no longer needing to open ports 51111-51113 I made the assumption that they were no longer being used (but I did try opening them anyway to no avail).

dr: I will PM you. Thanks.

Alan

Re: LAN connection not detected by Connect Performer

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:36 pm
by dr
just another random thought - did you delete the VST connect preferences (.ini files) in the performer ?