I ventured into rock territory for the first time

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Masoomi
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I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

Yo, this is my first instrumental rock song ... I'm such a newbie in rock that I don't even know if this is an instrumental rock or a symphonic metal song ... if someone can identify the genre I'd be happy. :lol:

Song title: Mechanical Apple
https://soundcloud.com/m_masoomi/mechannical-apple

All feedback are welcome :)

Mechanical Apple Ver 2
https://soundcloud.com/m_masoomi/mechan ... pple-ver-2
Last edited by Masoomi on Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hko
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by hko »

I am not sure if your piece really is rock but does it matter. Maybe an intro to a progressive rock tune.

What strikes me is that it all sounds quite distant - I think it would need to develop into something more immediate and close sounding at some stage.
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

hko wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:18 am
I am not sure if your piece really is rock but does it matter. Maybe an intro to a progressive rock tune.

What strikes me is that it all sounds quite distant - I think it would need to develop into something more immediate and close sounding at some stage.
Thanks mate... yes I was overusing the reverb so much and wasn't even realizing it. I reduced all reverbs by half except for the drums which I found had adequate amount of space to them ... uploading the new version now.
And about the genre I have to say it just sucks when someone asks you what genre is this song that you composed and you have no good answer ... that's really why I care :D :)

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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by hko »

I think it is better now but the guitars do not sound very impactful. I suppose these are guitar samples and not the real thing?
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Masoomi
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

hko wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:00 pm
I think it is better now but the guitars do not sound very impactful. I suppose these are guitar samples and not the real thing?
yeah all samples.
what do you mean by impactful, do you mean strength of plucking or volume ? and do you mean the whole song or just the first part??
since in the second part starting from min 1:00 guitars are struck with more force... well virtual force as you pointed out. :D
In the first part though, the mood is kind of mellow and I didn't want to make the guitars sound louder and impactful.

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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Early21 »

Hey Masoomi, to me it doesn't sound rock at all, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good! Rock has to have loud drums and loud bass. Loud is not the right word. Pounding is the right word! It would be fun to put pounding drums and bass on this tune. It's good.
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hko
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by hko »

Even in the second part the guitar sound does not really convince me. The guitars sound too compressed and polished.

Maybe you could try adding a rock type of bass and drums as suggested by Early21, removing nearly all reverb on the guitars and mixing them more upfront in the second part. I think then this could be more convincing as a rock tune. In the outro the guitar playing the theme should be louder in my opinion.
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Stephco »

On top on the previous comments, for me, it's about the bass. You need better foundations.
Drums are also quite shy.
In general, i think you need more clarity between the instruments. I found that Separation is key. You can use Panning & EQ.
for instance, sometimes, you can restrict Rxx-Lxx if you have a stereo track like don't use C for a Kick but R10-L10.
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That70srocker
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by That70srocker »

I took a listen yesterday. The intro sounds fine.
I would have made that melody that starts at about 0:40 a little less straight. I'd have used syncopation.
I'd have tried to make the chugging, building section that starts at about 1:10 less march straight too.
But I'll say that's a matter of taste. A march like feel may have been what you intended. I notice stuff like this because after years of trying to write songs I was aware that my composition skills needed improvement, the sound of my music was often straight, bland, uninteresting, and I intentionally look for how I can write in more variation and more rhythmic interest.

Production wise, since you had me expecting a metal track, after it built, I was looking for full bore metal when you broke into the section at about 1:30. I was looking for more contrast from the buildup leading up to that.
As others have suggested, a tighter more up close ambience of the guitar would help there. Double tracking guitars is extremely effective. It makes them sound bigger than life and widens the stereo field.
I'll second the others in suggesting that drums and bass could use more impact. That's the sound of rock. Bigger than life.

But I will say the piece works very well as is, as a new age tune. I have heard new age pieces with heavy guitars in them, and I think the production in this piece would work great on a new age album. No sarcasm there. I love 80s new age and I've tried recording pieces in that style.
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

That70srocker wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:31 pm
I took a listen yesterday. The intro sounds fine.
I would have made that melody that starts at about 0:40 a little less straight. I'd have used syncopation. ...
Stephco wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:17 am
On top on the previous comments, for me, it's about the bass. You need better foundations.
Drums are also quite shy...
hko wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:29 am
Even in the second part the guitar sound does not really convince me. The guitars sound too compressed and polished.
Maybe you could try adding a rock type of bass and drums as suggested by Early21, removing nearly all reverb on the guitars and mixing them more...
Early21 wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:45 pm
Hey Masoomi, to me it doesn't sound rock at all, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good! Rock has to have loud drums and loud bass. Loud is not the right word. Pounding is the right word! It would be fun to put pounding drums and bass on this tune. It's good.
Glad You liked it guys and thank you for pushing me to make another version which might actually be instrumental rock

Mechanical Apple Ver 2
https://soundcloud.com/m_masoomi/mechan ... pple-ver-2

hko
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by hko »

Sounds more like rock now. Some further suggestions still. In the intro the solo guitar is a bit too dry now. I meant mostly the rhythm guitars with the remove reverb on guitars (I was not specific enough in my comment). Some reverb is good also on rhythm guitars.

The guitars later in the tune are maybe a bit too front now compared to the bass and drums. The bass sound could still carry more weight and the drum sound could be more solid as well.

It seems you have also sped up the tune at some stage cause it is a bit shorter now.
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swetch
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by swetch »

Hi,
This is nice. I came onto this thread a bit late, and hadn't heard the earlier version. Whether this is "rock" doesn't really matter, although it leans in that direction. Probably more into the Prog Rock camp. It kind of reminded me a little of some stuff from the Dutch Prog band Focus.
Miles Davis was asked about categories in music, and said something along the lines of 'there are 2 types of music, good and bad". I tend to agree with that, and I personally often have a really hard time pigeon-holing things into a category when I up them to soundcloud.
What you did here is a nice composition and recording, that I'd classify into the "good music" category. One minor thought about the mix is to minumize the volume on the distorted guitar, once that comes in, and to boost the piano a bit more in the 2nd half of the song, because that's where the movement is really happening.

Masoomi
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

hko wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 pm
Sounds more like rock now. Some further suggestions still. In the intro the solo guitar is a bit too dry now. I meant mostly the rhythm guitars with the remove reverb on guitars (I was not specific enough in my comment). Some reverb is good also on rhythm guitars.

The guitars later in the tune are maybe a bit too front now compared to the bass and drums. The bass sound could still carry more weight and the drum sound could be more solid as well.

It seems you have also sped up the tune at some stage cause it is a bit shorter now.
Yeah it went from 85 to 90, the tempo I mean... The drums on ver 1 required a more relaxed tempo so I had reduced them a bit.
before I read your latest comment I played it for my friend and he said this sounds raw and I said well you have to imagine you're sitting close to the instruments in concert but I agree it was too dry so I fixed that.Thanks for the suggestions bro :D

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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

swetch wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:14 pm
Hi,
This is nice. I came onto this thread a bit late, and hadn't heard the earlier version. Whether this is "rock" doesn't really matter, although it leans in that direction. Probably more into the Prog Rock camp. It kind of reminded me a little of some stuff from the Dutch Prog band Focus.
Miles Davis was asked about categories in music, and said something along the lines of 'there are 2 types of music, good and bad". I tend to agree with that, and I personally often have a really hard time pigeon-holing things into a category when I up them to soundcloud.
What you did here is a nice composition and recording, that I'd classify into the "good music" category. One minor thought about the mix is to minumize the volume on the distorted guitar, once that comes in, and to boost the piano a bit more in the 2nd half of the song, because that's where the movement is really happening.
Thanks for considering this the Good Music. yeah I totally agree with the notion and that's why I have music from almost every genre on my phone cause every genre has good and bad music.
Yeah it was loud so I reduced the distorted guitar sound and the piano and drums and bass naturally became more pronounced as a result. thanks mate :)

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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

swetch wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:14 pm
Hi,
This is nice. I came onto this thread a bit late, and hadn't heard the earlier version. Whether this is "rock" doesn't really matter, although it leans in that direction. Probably more into the Prog Rock camp. It kind of reminded me a little of some stuff from the Dutch Prog band Focus.
Miles Davis was asked about categories in music, and said something along the lines of 'there are 2 types of music, good and bad". I tend to agree with that, and I personally often have a really hard time pigeon-holing things into a category when I up them to soundcloud.
What you did here is a nice composition and recording, that I'd classify into the "good music" category.
Thanks for considering this the Good Music. yeah I totally agree with the notion and that's why I have music from almost every genre on my phone cause every genre has good and bad music.
swetch wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:14 pm
One minor thought about the mix is to minumize the volume on the distorted guitar, once that comes in, and to boost the piano a bit more in the 2nd half of the song, because that's where the movement is really happening.
Yeah it was loud so I reduced the distorted guitar sound and the piano and drums and bass naturally became more pronounced as a result. thanks mate :)

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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Stephco »

this is Much Better!
I loved the final FX around the guitar. Well done.
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Masoomi
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Re: I ventured into rock territory for the first time

Post by Masoomi »

Stephco wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:14 pm
this is Much Better!
I loved the final FX around the guitar. Well done.
It's really energizing to work on something you haven't worked on before... Thanks for your time man.

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