Best User Experience Latest Operating System

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Quietly
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Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:17 pm

Why are Windows XP, Windows Vista and Mac OS X 10.5 no longer supported?
To ensure the best user-experience we only support officially the latest operating systems available.
I'm all for this statement Chris but I would appreciate that you make Yamaha aware of it, clearly they do not support the latest operating systems with their drivers. In fairness to those of us with Yamaha hardware such as the 01X by you not testing on previous operating systems and Yamaha not producing drivers for Windows 7 we are well and truly up the creek.

Options we stay with Cubase 5.5.2, the 01X , XP or Vista or we upgrade to Windows 7 and Cubase 6 purchase a new audio interface, mixing desk, controller and use the 01X as a door stop. Now that second option is an expensive one and evidence that Yamaha are doing exactly the opposite to Steinberg. I'm not getting an official response from either yourselves or Yamaha on this one so if you can throw some light or advice I would appreciate it.

Not a rant but a statement born out of frustration.
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by GargoyleStudio » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:14 pm

Yep, I have to agree, we're getting stuck between a rock and a hard place. PT has just done the same by dropping XP support, so I guess it's an accepted industry wide decision. It's just that some parts of the industry aren't moving forwards while others are closing the door.

I try to maintain a balanced path in life between investing in new products and re-using or recycling old ones, but I'm increasingly being forced to shelve perfectly good hardware items because they're no longer being supported. I now have 3 working sound cards and two working midi units which I can no longer use because of this.

I would call for some government guidelines on making sure manufacturers maintain and support legacy systems for a reasonable life-span. I don't mind paying a few quid for updates to finance this.

Mike.
[Win10x64 latest, Cb10.5 latest, MOTU PCIe, UAD2, Waves, Soundtoys, O9N, Arturia, Omnisphere]

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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by MusicJohn » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:46 pm

I also strongly agree - especially when you consider how close that the 01x mlan XP x64 drivers do work with windows 7 - I cannot imagine it would take someone who knows what they are doing to recompile and make the drivers officially work. Again, I would not mind paying for this update.

I wish Yamaha would even meet us half way by at least making a peer to peer driver for 01x- e.g. to at least allow you to connect one older mlan device to a PC/Mac under the latest OS rather than a full mlan network. At least this peer to peer connection would allow us to get some use out of our (still working but older) hardware.

Here is hoping that Yamaha see sense and actually grant permission for Steinberg to update the old mlan drivers.
As another suggestion, maybe there should be some hardware option introduced where we can get our mlan cards updated to the latest DiceII chipsets (surely the mlan board can be changed in an 01x) - then the up to date Y/S driver could be made compatible?

Here is hoping that one day a solution is available to bring my older hardware 01x & mlan16 card back to life.
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:25 pm

GargoyleStudio wrote:Yep,

I would call for some government guidelines on making sure manufacturers maintain and support legacy systems for a reasonable life-span. I don't mind paying a few quid for updates to finance this.

Mike.
Thanks Mike me too I would pay Yamaha a reasonable price for a 7 32/64Bit driver and I am sure all 01X users would do the same bearing in mind the cost of replacing it. Fantastic piece of kit that Yamaha in conjunction with Steinberg are making obsolete.

My real gripe here is the contradiction between Yamaha's policy of not offering any 01X drivers for Windows 7 and Steinberg saying we are testing it in 7 to ensure the best user experience.
Here is hoping that one day a solution is available to bring my older hardware 01x & mlan16 card back to life.
My 01X works a dream in XP and I just want it to work in Windows 7 or alternatively Cubase 6 to work in XP and that really is what I am hoping for as I have no CPU issues in XP and no crashes. Let's also hope John that if we put up some valid and constructive posts/complaints maybe someone might just say hey these guys have a point and offer us some solutions.
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Conman » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:56 pm

To help you guys, because this is a serious compatibility issue, I would say that someone somewhere is in breach of contract and either Steinberg resume support for older OSes or Yamaha catch up PDQ. You can't have $1000 housebricks lying around.

What do the support teams say?
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Chris Beuermann » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:16 pm

Hello,

With driver development of Yamaha we have nothing to do. In your case you have to contact Yamaha and not Steinberg.

We have Cubase 6 not testet with XP and Vista for the reasons that we have posted some while ago. One of the advantages is that we do not have to test every version on xp, vista 32/64, windows 7 32/64, Mac OS X 10.5, Mac OS X 10.6 32/64. This will give us much time, that we can use for other things.

Cheers,

Chris

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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:40 pm

Chris Beuermann wrote:Hello,

With driver development of Yamaha we have nothing to do. In your case you have to contact Yamaha and not Steinberg.

We have Cubase 6 not testet with XP and Vista for the reasons that we have posted some while ago. One of the advantages is that we do not have to test every version on xp, vista 32/64, windows 7 32/64, Mac OS X 10.5, Mac OS X 10.6 32/64. This will give us much time, that we can use for other things.

Cheers,

Chris
Thanks for replying Chris,

The fact that the driver development or lack of it by Yamaha directly effects the use of your software suggests that perhaps you should be talking to Yamaha.

Worth noting that the 01X was only discontinued in 2003 and can still be purchased http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/store/in ... Dgod4Db9Gg
One of its main selling points was its integration with Cubase, no drivers for Windows 7 means no Cubase 6 a good enough reason for Steinberg to raise the issue with Yamaha I would have thought.

I have written to Yamaha support and am still waiting for a reply.

In the meantime perhaps once it is moving off the shelf someone can check it out on XP if it works I'll buy it.

Best,

Gerry
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by mindastray » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:50 pm

Chris Beuermann wrote:Hello,

With driver development of Yamaha we have nothing to do. In your case you have to contact Yamaha and not Steinberg.

We have Cubase 6 not testet with XP and Vista for the reasons that we have posted some while ago. One of the advantages is that we do not have to test every version on xp, vista 32/64, windows 7 32/64, Mac OS X 10.5, Mac OS X 10.6 32/64. This will give us much time, that we can use for other things.

Cheers,

Chris
Have to agree with that concerning the older OS's. I mean XP is 10 years old and its official support from Microsoft will end within three years. Vista was bad to begin with and will never ever become such a work horse like XP became. Windows 7 is better all the way and I do understand people not having the money for buying it, but who does? Know what I'm saying?... ;)

I KNOW that Yamaha doesn't currently provide any Win7 drivers but THEY WILL SOON. They'd be stupid not to!! And I don't think they really could be. But it DOES confuse me that Yamaha is so old-school with this one. Well, off-topic but likewise are the software houses with (not) fully supporting 64-bit systems..

I can recommend Win7 anyways: Full support for the latest multicore processors + excellent handling of RAM, Superfetch, no stupid UAC (if you like not to use it), stable as h*ll and what not. You'll eventually have to update your OS's anyway so why prolonging it any further? Yes, it is one heck of a job installing your PC again and have everything working, but as for me having upgraded people's and firms' XP's to Win7 dozens of times I must say that good documentation is priceless.

I'm a happy Win7 64-bit / Cubase 5 64-bit user and I'm sure that C6 will run as smoothly on my system as C5 ever did :P

I guess my point is; don't let the old OS and PC ruin your Cubase experiense. It can't be too long when Yamaha opens up their eyes.

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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:20 pm

Windows 7 was launched in 2009 so I am not quite sure what you mean by "you know that Yamaha will do something soon."

I take Chris's point that Steinberg saved time by not testing Cubase 6 on either Vista or XP and as we all know time is money. Perhaps this is also Yamaha's policy and they are also saving time and money in not updating the 01X drivers to use with Windows 7. I hope that is not the case but if it is I would like either Steinberg or Yamaha to publicly say so.
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by JimH » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:41 am

Same situation here. I use a couple of mLAN devices and so I run Windows XP.

The mLAN drivers don't support Windows 7.
Cubase 6 only supports Windows 7.

I guess I'll be staying at Cubase 5 for a while.

Jim
Cubase 9.5, Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 920 / ASUS P6T, John Bowen Solaris, Korg Kronos, Yamaha S90ES, Hammond XK-3c, Minimoog, VAX77, Kurz K2000, etc.

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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:26 pm

JimH wrote:Same situation here. I use a couple of mLAN devices and so I run Windows XP.

The mLAN drivers don't support Windows 7.
Cubase 6 only supports Windows 7.

I guess I'll be staying at Cubase 5 for a while.

Jim

Let's hope it works on XP Jim with luck someone will try it out and let us know. One thing is for sure if Yamaha don't respond to my mail or don't update the 01X drivers any new hardware I buy will not have any tuning forks on the logo. Not that that will bother them as I suspect they are that big they really couldn't care less which certainly appears to be the case up until now.
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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by JimH » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:39 pm

Quietly wrote:Let's hope it works on XP Jim with luck someone will try it out and let us know.
I'm sure someone will report that it works. The question is whether everything works. Will that person have tested the same functions that you will use? If you encounter a problem that is related only to XP/Vista, I assume Steinberg will not support you or try to fix it in an update. Will the free version 6.5 work on XP/Vista?
Quietly wrote:One thing is for sure if Yamaha don't respond to my mail or don't update the 01X drivers any new hardware I buy will not have any tuning forks on the logo. Not that that will bother them as I suspect they are that big they really couldn't care less which certainly appears to be the case up until now.
If you look at the dead mLAN forum I'm sorry to say that I doubt anything will happen there. Maybe the best we could hope is that Yamaha would release source code and documentation(!) to public domain. But maybe they feel they have nothing to gain and possibly something to lose by doing that. Probably they're hoping either people have short memories or that there's a new generation of end users who don't know about mLAN. I'd at least just like to warn new customers that the gear you buy today might have a limited lifetime, and this is based on past behavior. But I guess this sounds to them like whining. (I should probably get off this subject before I get the thread locked or moved to the Lounge.)

I currently have an i88x and an mLAN16E board in my S90ES. I had thought of replacing the i88x with an MR816, but that will have a cost just to get back to where I was. This might be mitigated if I can manage to sell the i88x, but that's a pain. Then I would lose use of the mLAN16E. I can hope to sell the mLAN16E---also a pain---and just do without the digital connection. I was considering replacing the S90ES with a Motif XF8 and FW16E card because I could still get the S700 piano, but the XF8 is bigger and heaver, takes a long time to boot up, and it would cost a lot. So I don't have any solution I like, but I will probably end up going with replacing the i88x with something else and just doing without the mLAN16E. A step backwards in term of functionality really.
Cubase 9.5, Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 920 / ASUS P6T, John Bowen Solaris, Korg Kronos, Yamaha S90ES, Hammond XK-3c, Minimoog, VAX77, Kurz K2000, etc.

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Re: Best User Experience Latest Operating System

Post by Quietly » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:48 am

JimH wrote:
Quietly wrote:Let's hope it works on XP Jim with luck someone will try it out and let us know.
I'm sure someone will report that it works. The question is whether everything works. Will that person have tested the same functions that you will use? If you encounter a problem that is related only to XP/Vista, I assume Steinberg will not support you or try to fix it in an update. Will the free version 6.5 work on XP/Vista?
Quietly wrote:One thing is for sure if Yamaha don't respond to my mail or don't update the 01X drivers any new hardware I buy will not have any tuning forks on the logo. Not that that will bother them as I suspect they are that big they really couldn't care less which certainly appears to be the case up until now.
If you look at the dead mLAN forum I'm sorry to say that I doubt anything will happen there. Maybe the best we could hope is that Yamaha would release source code and documentation(!) to public domain. But maybe they feel they have nothing to gain and possibly something to lose by doing that. Probably they're hoping either people have short memories or that there's a new generation of end users who don't know about mLAN. I'd at least just like to warn new customers that the gear you buy today might have a limited lifetime, and this is based on past behavior. But I guess this sounds to them like whining. (I should probably get off this subject before I get the thread locked or moved to the Lounge.)

I currently have an i88x and an mLAN16E board in my S90ES. I had thought of replacing the i88x with an MR816, but that will have a cost just to get back to where I was. This might be mitigated if I can manage to sell the i88x, but that's a pain. Then I would lose use of the mLAN16E. I can hope to sell the mLAN16E---also a pain---and just do without the digital connection. I was considering replacing the S90ES with a Motif XF8 and FW16E card because I could still get the S700 piano, but the XF8 is bigger and heaver, takes a long time to boot up, and it would cost a lot. So I don't have any solution I like, but I will probably end up going with replacing the i88x with something else and just doing without the mLAN16E. A step backwards in term of functionality really.
On the bright side Jim I have to say that Cubase 5.5.2 is working superbly for me with no drop outs or CPU problems at all. The 01X is also performing as it should and all with XP Pro so perhaps the simple fact that everything is working perfectly I should just put off the whole business of upgrading to 6, replacing hardware and the OS off for the foreseeable future. Like they say if it works why replace it and we are in the boat of if we replace it almost nothing that we currently have will work. Yamaha have really let a lot people down over this and possibly all we can do is turn the page and get on with it.
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