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Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:40 am
by mozart
I'm thinking about buying this https://store.djtechtools.com/products/ ... er-twister

for tweaking soft synths.

However, how does cubase work in terms of sending feedback to the device? So for example if I map a knob to filter cutoff in a vsti and record some automation, will cubase send the data back to the controller in playback so that the lights will move?

Would this only work if I assign quick controls?

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:26 pm
by Martin.Jirsak
Hi,

I worked with this controller few months ago. If I'm right, the LEDs are using different MIDI CCs, then the knobs send. But double chceck this in the MIDI Implementation PDF, please.

If this is true, then you cannot send the value from Cubase back. You need the same in/Out MIDI CC to be able to do it.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:34 pm
by mozart
Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the manual but can't quite work it out :-)

It says this:

It is possible to sync the display value of the CC or note to the parameter it is controlling in

your software of choice. Simply map the MIDI OUT for that parameter to the same MIDI

number on channel 0.


so hopefully.......

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:52 pm
by Martin.Jirsak
mozart wrote:Simply map the MIDI OUT for that parameter to the same MIDI number on channel 0.[/i]
If you can map it to the same MIDI CC, then it will work.

I don't know why is the Channel 0 necessary here (sounds strange, MIDI Channels are 1-16).

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:02 am
by mozart
Thanks. So do you think I would be able to set it up as a generic remote so that for example, knob one is always CC74 and then whatever VSTi I'm using, I can assign CC74 to one of that vsti's controls and have the two way communication working? And then on another track a similar thing with a different vsti?

Would I need QC for that?

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:44 am
by Martin.Jirsak
Hi,

I'm not sure, if you can do it this way. I would expect, you will be forsed to set the Knob 1 to dedicated CC, the one, where it does receive the values for the LEDs.

Then I would recommend to use Quick Controls, as a dynamic assignment. Not to assign the MIDI CC in the Instrument.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:04 am
by mozart
Thanks Martin. I think you've assured me it will do what I want one way or another. I will buy it and report back. :-)

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:02 pm
by Matias DJTT
Hey guys,

I'm DJTT's Support Manager and happy to jump in to clear up any doubts.

The Twister does indeed listen back to the same CC for MIDI Out so say you have the top left encoder on bank 1 mapped (CC0 Ch.1), if Cubase can send Midi Out to that control it should work just fine. The same applies to the RGB LEDs which are engaged when you push one of the encoders (in this case messages are sent with the same CC# but on Ch.2 by default). If some of the original messages conflict with other devices or plugins the MF Utility allows you to change these for a better fit and the MIDI Out will be listened to on the new CC/Channel.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:31 pm
by mozart
Thanks Matias for jumping in. The unit should be arriving today :-)

I couldn't find much info on using this device with Cubase so this post might be useful for others too.

Is it possible to have the RGB colours change when you select a different bank (using the device bank change controls, not midi)? I'm thinking of having one bank set up for eqs and channel strip and one for more vsti uses.....

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:03 pm
by Matias DJTT
Yes, you can assign the on/off colors via the MF Utility independently for each RGB LED on each bank. This way you can easily tell apart the different banks as you navigate them. 8-)

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:05 pm
by mozart
Brilliant thanks. I'll document where I can and then maybe you can put some of it up on your site to help other cubase users.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:09 pm
by Matias DJTT
Sure thing! If you do come up with a template you'd be happy to share with other Cubase users we'd love to have it up on maps.djtechtools.com.

Feel free to ping me if you need anything along the way.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:13 pm
by mozart
Thanks will do

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:17 pm
by mk-
Hello Mozart. Had you been successfull in using midifighter twister as mentioned? I have the same application idea (Controlling e.g. waves channelstrip of the SSL E-Console) and need to be sure that the current filter Position is reflected by the knobs.
Also: I still can't find any Information/Support for cubase on the DJTT Websites.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:18 am
by mozart
I have yes. It works well. I'm going to do some setup instructions on my blog in a day or two.....

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:42 pm
by marcuskino
Mozart,

Did you get the "relative" mode working for the MFT encoders?

I seem to be having trouble getting relative working and can only use "pickup" mode in Generic Remote.

Also keen to see how you setup the LED transmit back to MFT.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:39 pm
by mozart
Sorry for delay in replying to you. Had a deadline to deal with. Will get onto this tomorrow.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:12 am
by mozart
I've written a post here about how I'm using the Midi Fighter Twister in Cubase.

http://www.matthewmooremusic.co.uk/twist-and-fight/

Hope this might help. Feel free to throw questions at me on the blog if you want....

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:58 pm
by marcuskino
I read your blog post Mozart. I see on your "generic remote" map your aren't using "relative" mode or "pickup" mode, which means you are using the default "jump" mode. Jump is an awful way to use a controller as the Cubase parameter will jump to the position of your hardware controller. This is nasty for volume or gain parameters.

The "transmit" feedback (LED position on the MFT) seems to work for me.

My main issue is that the MFT doesn't work in "relative" mode, so I'm using "pickup" mode, its a bit annoying and slows down workflow.

The MFT mapping software lets you choose "ENC 3FH/41H" for their relative mode option but doesn't seem to gel with Cubase. :(

I bought the MFT to control DMG Equilibrium EQ as an insert in Cubase, it does do a decent job, but if the MFT "relative" mode worked with Cubase it would be a great small controller.

I'm hoping someone from DJTT will read this and try to implement a "relative" mode that works in Cubase in their next update. :)

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm
by mozart
Hi there. You're right in that I'm not using relative mode but there is absolutely no jumping.

You'll note from my article that one of the things that I wanted to avoid was parameter jump .

I'm having absolutely no parameter jump using it that way that I am . When I move the encoder it moves from exactly the position that is being reported to it from cubase.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:47 pm
by marcuskino
mozart wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:10 pm
Hi there. You're right in that I'm not using relative mode but there is absolutely no jumping.

Hallelujah... it is working now! :) Thanks for the heads up :)

I turned of the "pick up" in generic remote, had to restart Cubase and now all good. DMG Equilibrium is very responsive, MFT level indicator LEDs are responsive to Equilibrium's settings when I select a new channel in Cubase. I had to change MFT encoders to 'Dot" mode as the other options weren't reflective.

The only quirk is the on/off toggle switch LEDs don't always work ( I have them set to bypass the bands on Equilibrium), when I change to a new track channel.

I have the MFT encoders set to MIDI channel 11 and not having any conflicts so far.

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:52 pm
by mozart
Excellent. Glad you got it working. :-) Interesting about midi channel 11. I'll try that

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:53 pm
by mk-
Hi all.

Since some months I'm "fighting" using midifighter as generic Controller of Cubase Pro 9.

I had an detailed email exchange with midifighter support and also with Steinberg Support. No side could (wants seriously) to help: I cant believe that djtechtools can't afford any light cubase licencse in order to reproduce the incompatible behaviours (maybe Steinberg could give them one for free?). On the other side I offered Steinberg Support to lend my personal midifighter, so they could check out the issues - they didn't accept that.

So last try here at the Forum:

There are three different error types (Error 1: Driver - Win7 Startup - midifighter not recognized; Error 2: Led colours and CC when using higher midifighter Banks (2,3,4) get confused; Error 3: most bothering me the not fully synced Switch-LED behaviour.
To avoid confusion, for now I will only talk about Error 3:

Error 3:
A very basic Midifigher Problem is the behavior with a CC-Toggle Switch:
E.g. mapping a Cubase mute button to Bank1/Switch0 of midifighter and configuring that as "CC-Toggle" has one Problem: When the button is already switched to "ON" on cubase side, and you try to Switch the button then "OFF" at midifighter side, then the Status LED of the midifighter is not correct anymore (still keeps light "ON").
All other sequences are working ok, like switching on/off only at midifighter or swiching on/off only on cubase (is tracked correctly by the midifighter LED Status) or even switching on at midifighter and then switching off with cubase.
So, the statemachine inside midifighter seems to be Buggy!

Other devices like my PreSonus Faderport handle that Switch/Led Synchronisation between Cubase and external Hardware perfectly, so why should't midifighter get that right?

Comments please! :|

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:04 pm
by Martin.Jirsak
Hi,

I'm sorry, but all errors you described don't look like an errors on Cubase side. All of them seem to be on the HW side. What would you expect from Steinberg here?

Re: Midi fighter twister feedback

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:34 am
by mozart
The first point about win 7 and the driver not being recognised is known by DJ tech tools and they are working on a fix apparently.

I've got some toggle switches set up but not with the lighting. I'll check that behaviour.