Wrong way to make music?

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Jazman2k
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Wrong way to make music?

Post by Jazman2k »

What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre? I have noticed that my tracks ultimately sound very different from others on the same genre (trance) and I once tried to create something different, but I just couldn't. All my tracks are always quite happy and uplifting. So I was thinking If I do something wrong.

But is there really a wrong way to do music? I think there is not. You do what you do, and mostly I do music for myself, because I have learned that it is impossible to make everyone happy.

I would like to hear some stories, If someone struggles with similar problems. Don't know if it's a problem itself, maybe it's more about self-esteem. I am somehow afraid to express myself freely. I often notice I try to copy too much real artists (Even If I managed to release few tracks in spotify, still don't consider myself real :D)

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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Early21 »

No! There is no wrong way to make music of any genre! But, you should not expect anyone to appreciate or enjoy what you have created except yourself. If you are hoping for others to want to listen to your music, it might be a different story. For instance, if you want to write something that a live orchestra could play, and its audience would like, you would need to know a lot about what instruments can play what notes, etc., if you want to create club music, people will want to be able to dance to it.

If you want to make something truly original, then you should let your mind roam freely without constraint. These days many think that there is no such thing as talent; there is only hard work, tenacity, and a strong sense of whether a creative product is good (google "no such thing as talent"), leading to a cycle of improvement. On the other hand, it is impossible for people to have an appreciation for any piece of music that doesn't start with the musical patterns (tones or sounds, melodies, harmonies, chord progressions, rhythms) that are typical of the genre. Those things about the music that make it recognizable as the genre.

I think the composers we like the most are those who know their genre but also have ideas of where to stretch into new patterns that surprise listeners. So the listener also has a part, based on prior experience. Somebody who is a big fan of pop diva music is never going to understand Schoenberg. Well, nobody is ever going to understand Schoenberg. Maybe a better example is Philip Glass.

And don't forget, of the 7.5 billion people on earth, only about 5 billion are trying to create music on their computers.

I couldn't reach your links, btw.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by mitchiemasha »

The wrong way would be to not make it. Just don't be upset when no one likes it. or, try not to be at least. When you find yourself doing other mundane tasks to avoid getting in the studio, that's when you know something is wrong
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Early21 »

I should have added that you can listen to music I created, following the links below, which I really like, but not many others do.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by jamescolah »

Hi Early21,

Your music is amazing! Congratulations and keep up the good work!

Kind regards

James Colah
http://www.jamescolahproductions.com

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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by HugoP »

Jazman2k wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm
What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre?
There is no right way or wrong way to make music. Arts is purely subjective.
Early21 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:46 am
I should have added that you can listen to music I created, following the links below, which I really like, but not many others do.
I went to your SoundCloud page and I totally like your music. Good job.

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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Early21 »

Thanks! My first two fans! Hoping that Jazman2k will fix his links.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by mhazdra »

If a bear craps in the forest, and there is nobody there to smell it, does it stink?

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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by MattiasNYC »

HugoP wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:30 pm
Jazman2k wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm
What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre?
There is no right way or wrong way to make music. Arts is purely subjective.
I disagree. I don't think art is purely subjective.

Wikipedia's description for example reads:
Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
If this is true (and I think it is) it's not art if it isn't conforming to the definition above.

So, is there a "wrong way to make music?" Well, if you want to make art-music then there is. The less you do to create music and the more your computer does the less art it's going to be. Is it still music? Probably...
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Nickeldome »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:56 pm
HugoP wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:30 pm
Jazman2k wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm
What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre?

There is no right way or wrong way to make music. Arts is purely subjective.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:56 pm
I disagree. I don't think art is purely subjective.
I think art is purely subjective when it comes to abstract forms like avant-garde, freestyle and such in general arts like painting and sculpting. When there are less or no rules at all it depends on the creator to determine what’s art but eventually it’s his audience that will consider and finally decide if it’s art?

When it comes to music it’s a totally different story! All humans have the gift of understanding and reproducing basic melodic phrases in low (melody) to higher level (harmony). In this process they also develop a certain profile of personal preference. And because of that they develop a preference for certain types of music. If an individual considers some music as art this highly individual and it’s also highly dependent on culture.
In the middle east 1/4 notes is part of the normal musical vocabulary. Here in the west it is experienced as disturbing and will most likely not be considered as art by the majority.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:56 pm
Wikipedia's description for example reads:Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative, conceptual ideas, or technical skill, intended to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
But who decides what is art? Is it the creator that has been producing art for 50 years but never sold a single piece or heard any positive remarks about his work? Or is it the consumers/audience that stand in line hoping to buy one of his creations before it’s sold out?
MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:56 pm
So, is there a "wrong way to make music?" Well, if you want to make art-music then there is. The less you do to create music and the more your computer does the less art it's going to be. Is it still music? Probably...
(Sorry for some textual quote confusion maybe? But this 'quote' system here is very confusing to me and erratic and results are not shown correctly in the preview. So I hope you'll understand?)

YES, OF COURSE THERE IS A WRONG WAY OF MAKING MUSIC IN ANY GENRE!

If you want to play jazz and you play the right chords and melody, but you play all the notes on the exact beat it will not be jazz.

If you want to play Arabic music but ignore ¼ notes it will be wrong. Etc….

Either you make a simple pop song with I (Dorian)-V (Mixolydian)-VI (Aolean) -IV (Lydian) progression based on the tonal circle of fifths or a very complex 12 tone system music like Arnold Schoenberg and Alban Berg used? There are melodic and harmonic rules that apply to each.

For tonal music the rules and restrictions are not that strict. But if you produce a melody that is not in line with the chord or mode you are in. Most people will feel ‘something’ is not right? But you will have to really go look for the boundaries before people decide it’s ‘WRONG’?

It becomes more technically but less audible when it comes to the 12 tone system. This is a mathematical way of composing music. One of the basics is “no one tone may sound again before the other 11 tones have been heard”. Although one may think this will result in complete chaos and completely random music? The character of this music is always recognizable for most people able to perceive music at this level. That’s because the 12 tones we use in our tonal system are based on mathematical logic. However you mix them up in a different system? Whatever rule you invent to use these 12 tones? The result will always be that there is a familiar pattern that is recognizable to that system. Like the logic of the Fibonacci number sequence in nature. (J.S. Bach was one of the first to realize this logic based on our 12 tones and based his ‘The well-tempered clavier’ on this).

So if you don’t stick to those strict rules you are writing ‘WRONG’ 12 tone music! The good news is, 99,9% off all people will probably not hear your mistake? But never the less, it will be wrong. 

So yes, it’s perfectly possible to make ‘wrong’ music.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Nickeldome wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:38 am
But who decides what is art? Is it the creator that has been producing art for 50 years but never sold a single piece or heard any positive remarks about his work? Or is it the consumers/audience that stand in line hoping to buy one of his creations before it’s sold out?
To the extent that we can determine anything and to the extent that words actually matter the people that decide what art is are those who do some amount of critical analysis and stick to the definition of the word "art". If art literally can be anything then it is everything and the word really stops being about things and is just more of an "attitude"... meaning we can't say that an object is a piece of art, just the attitude toward it.

I think that's useless in terms of having a conversation for the most part.

If we use the word as described and we say that a painting is a piece of art then that word has a specific meaning and it's not the same as saying that what I made in my toilet bowl about 20 minutes ago is art as well. It isn't. If art could be literally anything then it would be. It's not though.

"Price", "positive remarks" and "popularity" etc have no bearing on whether or not it's art in my opinion.
Nickeldome wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:38 am
yes, it’s perfectly possible to make ‘wrong’ music.
I don't disagree with you when you interpret the question and what I wrote that way.

What I meant was different though, and my focus was on the definition of the word requiring that it is a human that creates art. The more work the computer does the less work the human does. Pressing one key on a keyboard and having Cubase spit out a pre-programmed drum loop doesn't make it art in my opinion. It makes it a drum loop, sure, and arguably music in that sense.. but "art"? No.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Nickeldome »

What I meant was different though, and my focus was on the definition of the word requiring that it is a human that creates art. The more work the computer does the less work the human does. Pressing one key on a keyboard and having Cubase spit out a pre-programmed drum loop doesn't make it art in my opinion. It makes it a drum loop, sure, and arguably music in that sense.. but "art"? No.
[/quote]

So I think you misunderstood my whole story and we are on different levels?

My story has nothing to do with computers but everything with how humans create art in whatever setting?
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Nickeldome wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:34 pm
So I think you misunderstood my whole story and we are on different levels?

My story has nothing to do with computers but everything with how humans create art in whatever setting?
Well if we use computers to create art then that's how we create art, no?

But yeah, I was referring to what I wrote earlier. Like I said, I don't disagree with what I think your point was, I was just saying that it seems my point was different.
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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Doris_Stephens »

Jazman2k wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm
What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre? I have noticed that my tracks ultimately sound very different from others on the same genre (trance) and I once tried to create something different, but I just couldn't. All my tracks are always quite happy and uplifting. So I was thinking If I do something wrong.

But is there really a wrong way to do music? I think there is not. You do what you do, and mostly I do music for myself, because I have learned that it is impossible to make everyone happy.

I would like to hear some stories, If someone struggles with similar problems. Don't know if it's a problem itself, maybe it's more about self-esteem. I am somehow afraid to express myself freely. I often notice I try to copy too much real artists (Even If I managed to release few tracks in spotify, still don't consider myself real :D)
there isn't a wrong way of creating music.. as long as you enjoy it.

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Re: Wrong way to make music?

Post by Nickeldome »

Doris_Stephens wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:34 pm
Jazman2k wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm
What do you think? Is there wrong way to make music of any genre? I have noticed that my tracks ultimately sound very different from others on the same genre (trance) and I once tried to create something different, but I just couldn't. All my tracks are always quite happy and uplifting. So I was thinking If I do something wrong.

But is there really a wrong way to do music? I think there is not. You do what you do, and mostly I do music for myself, because I have learned that it is impossible to make everyone happy.

I would like to hear some stories, If someone struggles with similar problems. Don't know if it's a problem itself, maybe it's more about self-esteem. I am somehow afraid to express myself freely. I often notice I try to copy too much real artists (Even If I managed to release few tracks in spotify, still don't consider myself real :D)
there isn't a wrong way of creating music.. as long as you enjoy it.
Enjoying your own music in your own environment, yes of course . But it depends from what view you're approaching this? As a creator or or a listener? If the public doesn't enjoy your music is it still 'right' music? Should you go on creating music the public doesn't like or should you try and make music that the public will like?

My opinion:

Don't ever try to change who you are no matter what! Wrong or right! Your music is you! And even if no one likes it it's still your music! This is always better than trying to make your music to be liked by the public?

It's better to fail with your own music than to succeed with something to just please others!

If you still have the choice? Never ever change who you are!! And if that doesn't work? So be it and have your peace with that!

But, never ever try to be someone you're not! Both as a performer and /or creator? It will never work and eventually can make you very unhappy! Believe me, I've been there! I finally found my way but it sure took a lot of heartache!

Do what you do best and develop from there.

But most of all. Enjoy what you do! If you get that feeling 'something's not right' then usually it's not.

Train and accept yourself to enjoy what you do!

If you do and display that? Then most of the time your public will enjoy what you're doing.

There is always a public for musicians that enjoy what they do and believe in!

So whatever you do? Believe in yourself and always hold on to that!
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