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Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:32 am
by DaDa
Reading through the manual, it seems, that two very important features have been forgotten :

- Transparent events
mandatory for manually aligning waveforms to the grid

- the 'wave image style' drop down menu
mandatory for feeling at home !!
I' ve set it to 'solid and framed' since countless years !
It just looks so much better than the ugly grayish standard waveform display !

I've read, that some graphical options didn't make it to the current manual.
I really pray, these are among them !

A missing transparent waveform option ( with no adequate alternative )
would definitely be a showstopper, here !
( Which would be a real pain, as there are many welcome and needed improvements in V6 )

bye, Jan

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:45 am
by -steve-
Yes., this appears to be missing.

See page 57 of Cubase 5 manual, then page 57 of the Cubase 6 manual.

Would be very disappointing. I love this feature and use it all the time.

I hope very much this is simply missing info, like DaDa was saying.

Steve

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:00 am
by TonyB
From the faq in this forum.... (things not in the docs)

Cubase 6 | Cubase Artist 6
File > Preferences > Event Display > Audio: There are three new preferences which affect the project view event appearance.

Waveform Brightness: Controls the relative brightness of the waveform. The starting point is the actual event color. It is possible to adjust the color smoothly from black, through the event color, to white.
Waveform Outline Intensity: Controls the intensity of the outline of the waveform. The range is from the waveform color set with the Waveform Brightness through to black.
Fade Handle Brightness: Controls the brightness of the Fade Handles. The starting point is the actual event color. It is possible to adjust the color smoothly from black, through the event color, to white.

..I'm guessing that's "solid & framed" covered ..??
Looks like transparent events has gone, though.
..Background colour modulation is still available.

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:24 am
by -steve-
Thanks for that Tony, I really got used to seeing the grid behind the event. sigh...

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:53 am
by DaDa
Thanks Tony.
Yep, I've read that ... and now after the 3rd attempt, I think I understand how it works.
Not exactly like 'solid and framed', but may look pretty good as well.

Transparent event background is mandatory, though.
I'd say 70% of my editing work is aligning audio to the grid and to other tracks.

We now get auto tempo mapping ( which is really great ) but obviously can't fine tune audio later on ...

I pray that this is just an oversight in the manual !

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:56 am
by DaDa
TonyB wrote:..Background colour modulation is still available.
Yeah ! 8-)

Has anyone ever used that ???

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:27 am
by -steve-
I don't have a good feeling about this.

Yeah background color modulation. Looks neat though. When I start playing that I know it's time to take a break...

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:14 pm
by Cantankerous
Please tell me this is NOT the case of this being removed and it is just a mistake on the part of the editing of the manual. I have no idea why this would be taken out as it harmed nothing at all. Seeing the grid lines behind the events is extremely necessary for lining things up perfectly when moving/nudging. Can anyone confirm whether this is still present and hopefully we are all whining for nothing?

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:22 pm
by DaDa
Can anyone confirm whether this is still present and hopefully we are all whining for nothing?
We won't get an answer before Monday, I guess ...
I have no idea why this would be taken out as it harmed nothing at all.
Well, I can only speculate, that they thought, turning events transparent while moving is enough.
Which it is not ...

bye, Jan

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:42 pm
by timmyboylad
I have been working with transparent events for years and it's very important for the way that I work.

If it IS true that C6 does not have this option, that definitely lessens my incentive to upgrade (that plus the lack of a printed manual).

I wonder how the designers determine if a feature is no longer needed? I know they didn't ask me (hee hee).

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:07 pm
by entoine
:-( Very disapointing ...

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:25 pm
by DaDa
timmyboylad wrote:I wonder how the designers determine if a feature is no longer needed?
Yep, that's a very common question.
My guess : their main contact to the userbase are their beta testers and VIUs.
Obviously these are often not representing the 'masses'.

But besides a public beta
( which would need too many resources and would cause too much noise ),
I can only think of user surveys ...

At least, they tried to get closer to the userbase,
with the 'Nuendo Inside' questioning at the old Nuendo.com.
Though very restricted, that was a step in the right direction IMO.

bye, Jan

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:36 pm
by entoine
Cubase 6 | Cubase Artist 6
File > Preferences > Events Display: The preference “Show Overlaps” controls the visibility of event overlaps. You can select to show overlaps always, never or when hovering with the mouse over the respective event area in the Project window.
I found this in the FAQ with "The following features have not yet been documented in the Cubase 6 and Cubase Artist 6 operation manual"
hope it is how I want it.. but not sure...

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:40 pm
by -steve-
hey, didn't i see a definitive reply a half hour ago from a non-admin member? Said, Transparent events are gone for now. Didn't I see that or am I dreaming?

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:43 pm
by entoine
I saw it too.. but disappeared the time I was answering by " :( very disapointing"

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:44 pm
by -steve-
That's funny and weird.

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:33 pm
by DaDa
Yep, this happens occasionally.
When V5 was released, a coder posted that it was partly his fault, that multitrack quantizing didn't make it into V5.
That post was gone very quickly ( in fact so quick, that I never saw it ... so I may not be completely accurate, here )

At least this deletion may give us a bit of hope !
:|

bye, Jan

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:35 am
by captainhook
Another thumbs up for returning transparent events. If you are slip editing, then you don't get to see the greyed out ghost waveform when you are moving it.

Steinberg said they talked to drummers and drum editors when they designed this new fandangled editing workflow, so hopefully someone had used transparent events before and spoke up that you can't take that out.

I guess, I don't understand why you remove things from a program that you gotta think that your users probably have used or been using for years! They once spent money having a programmer put in those things, then they just throw them out.

Why not always just build on what you have, and just add to it. If something has to change to make the new thing happen, then figure it out.

It's like getting use to using a shovel, then they give you a pitch fork, which is great for some things, but what are you suppose to do when you have to pick up some dirt now? I guess you go back to AVID and buy their shovel.

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:43 am
by DaDa
SteveInChicago wrote:hey, didn't i see a definitive reply a half hour ago from a non-admin member? Said, Transparent events are gone for now. Didn't I see that or am I dreaming?
entoine wrote:I saw it too.. but disappeared the time I was answering by " :( very disapointing"
And I thought ...
Pretty short statement.
8-)

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:49 am
by DaDa
captainhook wrote:It's like getting use to using a shovel, then they give you a pitch fork, which is great for some things, but what are you suppose to do when you have to pick up some dirt now? I guess you go back to AVID and buy their shovel.
If it only would be that easy ....

Thing is ... there are many ways to edit audio.
If I want to align the timing of 6 horn ( brass / woodwinds ) tracks,
there's no way around transparent events !
Whatever there is to make the grid visible while moving an event will not help here !

bye, Jan

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:32 am
by -steve-
Here's hoping!

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:37 pm
by Christian D.
Hello...

A lot of work went into re-designing the part appearance and display behaviors, consolidating all the different display/draw modes which where added over the years into the program. There was a lot of interdependency of all the different combination and modes which culminated in rather awkward code to maintain - or to extend. Nearly impossible. With Nuendo 5 the first batch of part appearance changes was introduced, with Cubase 6 we got it all together. Tidy, and modern looking, and with user controllable settings. It takes a bit of time to get used to it but compare a complex project in Cubase 5.5 with Cubase 6: It has a much calmer look and once you have seen it in action you will notice that there is purpose behind all this. As a tip: Ever wondered by "Use Background Modulation" and using the Range Tool never got nicely together? In Cubase 6 it all works and looks as it should and removes much of the "clutter".

To answer the question about Transparent Events: The term itself (when viewed from Cubase 5.5 point of view) is a bit misleading. But we know why people have been using it, there are usecases where you need to see the grid underneath e.g. a peak of a waveform. Unfortunately we could not yet re-implement it back in time - but on the other hand we are now in the best position of having a fresh, modern looking appearance and adding it back without doing nasty things to achieve it. It is just not ready yet, sorry.

Best regards,
Christian

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:45 pm
by JMCecil
On a non-whiner note ... I have to say that based on the videos, the interface LOOKS really good. You can see the difference quite easily. Can't wait to see it in person.

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:50 pm
by -steve-
Christian D. wrote:It is just not ready yet, sorry.

Best regards,
Christian
Thanks for the detailed response, Chris.

Re: Please return: transparent events + wave image style menu

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:52 pm
by Cantankerous
Christian D. wrote:Hello...

A lot of work went into re-designing the part appearance and display behaviors, consolidating all the different display/draw modes which where added over the years into the program. There was a lot of interdependency of all the different combination and modes which culminated in rather awkward code to maintain - or to extend. Nearly impossible. With Nuendo 5 the first batch of part appearance changes was introduced, with Cubase 6 we got it all together. Tidy, and modern looking, and with user controllable settings. It takes a bit of time to get used to it but compare a complex project in Cubase 5.5 with Cubase 6: It has a much calmer look and once you have seen it in action you will notice that there is purpose behind all this. As a tip: Ever wondered by "Use Background Modulation" and using the Range Tool never got nicely together? In Cubase 6 it all works and looks as it should and removes much of the "clutter".

To answer the question about Transparent Events: The term itself (when viewed from Cubase 5.5 point of view) is a bit misleading. But we know why people have been using it, there are usecases where you need to see the grid underneath e.g. a peak of a waveform. Unfortunately we could not yet re-implement it back in time - but on the other hand we are now in the best position of having a fresh, modern looking appearance and adding it back without doing nasty things to achieve it. It is just not ready yet, sorry.

Best regards,
Christian
Thank you ever so kindly for the detailed response. I know many of us here would appreciate this. I am glad we know up front that what we are after is not currently in Cubase 6, however, I am hopeful that you guys will reconsider and the fact that it should not be too hard to re-implement should mean we will hopefully see it in a future update. Again, thank you! We all enjoy this kind of interaction between the developer and the user base.