The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

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profdraper
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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by profdraper » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:35 am

ResonantMind wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:32 am
Video to audio, audio to video.. Which one comes first, is really open to any ones discretion these days.
Why not give this opportunity for the composer and director, to work more closely with the video in the musical DAW, rather than have these processes so separated? Being able to do a rough cut while making the music. Or making music, then making the visuals. Then adding the visuals, then tweaking the music, then tweaking the visuals?
Just features. Splice, Trim, Fade In/Out, Clip Cross fading, Clip Manager.
I know exaclty what you mean: have been working in this space for a long time, ie, round-tripping between NLEs & DAWs.

First up I'd say check out Blackmagic's DaVinci Resolve NLE, now at 15.2, https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/pro ... ciresolve/
There's a free version and a $300-odd 'Studio' version with extra plugs, functionality. This is the *only* platform that I am aware of that is intent on fully developing an NLE into a combined DAW. Of particular note, Blackmagic bought Fairlight a couple of years ago and now all of that technology - both soft -und hardware - is now in the Blackmagic stable. See https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/pro ... /fairlight

The Fairlight pages have editing, mxing, plugs, routing etc as one would expect and certainly well beyond any extistng NLEs (including Premier). Can be a little flaky at times, but is constantly being updated and widened. My main gripes: no ASIO drivers and no real MIDI to speak of - quite important for me for composition and a swag of VIs. I can get around the ASIO thing becuase Resolve will point to 'system sound' and as long at that uses your ASIO box, no problem.

I'm still round tripping to Nuendo & that works fairly transparently: Resolve can render out mult-track audio with reference movie, then Nuendo very nicely upacks and splits all that audio into lanes, adds a movie track etc. After mix, music, sweetening etc I then just bounce out a final master audio file at the LUFS I want, and drop that into a new Resolve timeline.

Still, I take others' points about Neundo needing at least a few movie editing features ... woh, backup: how about re-instating bounce-audio-to-video feature? Then there's the broken support for Blackmagic Decklink drivers etc. Then perhaps like ProTools Ultimate (for starters) we should expect to see just a little competitiveness? Tools provides multiple video tracks (view one at a time) and some rudimentary cut features.

Anyways, I'm following the Resolve development. Combo NLE-DAW ambitions and certainly is getting along very nicely. Vote with yer pocket.
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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by ResonantMind » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 am

I haven't been able to reply because I was temp banned from my replies in here. snowflakes :lol:
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:30 pm
I have done sound for film and tv over 30 years.
And if something is possible you are asked to do that. So all Heiners points are very much valid.

And so are mine. What you call hypothetical I call experince and wisdom.
And you just tell them, the daw isn't capable of rendering video at full resolution.

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:23 pm
ResonantMind wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:42 am
I'm not sure a hypothetical "how many bugs would this produce?" is a valid point either because well... let me ask you, specifically, "how many new bugs would this produce? Exact number please". Maybe it wouldn't produce any new bugs, or maybe 1, or 2? Or Maybe 100. Still, It's no reason to not do something potentially inspiring new kinds of workflows.
Look at how long it took to iron out some fundamental flaws in Nuendo 7. Look at the time it took to deal with certain issues in v8. Still some very strange things going on in 8.3.15 supposedly.

The question is if it is more beneficial for those who can afford to pay for Nuendo and stay up to date (professionals mainly) to have video editing capability rather than have those issues fixed. I think that's the fundamental question here. And what you need to ask yourself is; What are the odds that even if new bugs aren't introduced at a higher rate because video editing was added bugs that are 'normal' will take longer to fix?

I'll take bug fixes and improvements and enhancements of post-production specific features over added video stuff any day.
ResonantMind wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:42 am
The idea isn't aimed at engineers holding commercial audio chairs in commercial audio editing studios where they clock in and out and are there only for one purpose.
ResonantMind wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:42 am
Why would a customer who locked their own picture ask you to do, it doesn't make sense. and would you even be working off a full resolution copy of the locked-picture? Anyways, regardless of this feature... You decide what work you want and don't want to do always... And if someone wanted you to do this? You would turn down the money?
ResonantMind wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:42 am
You're both speaking all this crazy hypotheticals to try and negate an idea, of which doesn't even have to really do with that field of work...? You guys need to listen to some Brian Eno or something, get a little outside the box.
I think you should listen to all the people that chimed in here. I don't wish to sound dismissive because I don't really know you personally, but you're talking to people with literally decades of experience in post production. Like Tumppi said; when something becomes possible clients start asking for it. Let me just give you at least some perspective:

When I started out all my work was done in Pro Tools. The system ran on a beige mac and included a Digidesign sync box that connected to a machine room where Beta decks were located. In the beginning picture was played back from tape in realtime. After a while we started digitizing video from tape (realtime), but we still laid back to tape (realtime again). The point here is that there was virtually zero time to mess with picture edits because changing something meant re-edit in the Avid, export new OMF, create new DigiBeta tape, physically get that tape to audio post, and at that point it's hours later. If you're in television this was a no-no. Locked mostly meant locked in those days.

Now fast forward to a few years ago when I started getting requests to send out audio-to-picture for review. No biggie. PT allows me to bounce to video. But then there was bouncing to shorter sections. And eventually people started asking if I could tweak edits that became problematic (i.e. lip-sync issues etc) and finally "Can we adjust color here?".

So, the question is really a deeper one here; how much different type work do you really want to do in post? Highly skilled professional or "Jack of all trades master of none"? Which ultimately pays most? Which is ultimately most rewarding.

-- AND: Are you prepared to not only be responsible for audio being to spec, but also video?

My guess is that you're actually right about things converging and that there's a benefit to it to decent size of the market, but the question is if it's better to add stuff to Nuendo or simply learn how to operate Resolve alongside Nuendo instead. I for one would rather become good at Resolve and very good at Nuendo than having to deal with upcoming issues with video features... and 'yes', I'm absolutely being a pessimist about that.

Pop-quiz: It's February 2019 and we're on Nuendo v8 - Can we export audio mixdown to picture yet?

The answer should tell you all you need to know about the potential issues of extensive video features.
Sorry, but I don't think current bugs and improvement needs are not something that should be used to try and negate progress and ideas. That's just silly, so it doesn't need to be discussed here. Bugs need to be worked on, alongside new development, that's reality. Sorry.

Maybe everyone in here needs to listen to me, sorry, I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I have decades of not being stuck in a certain work pattern and can no longer think outside the box and have issues letting go and allowing change.
Now fast forward to a few years ago when I started getting requests to send out audio-to-picture for review. No biggie. PT allows me to bounce to video. But then there was bouncing to shorter sections. And eventually people started asking if I could tweak edits that became problematic (i.e. lip-sync issues etc) and finally "Can we adjust color here?".

So, the question is really a deeper one here; how much different type work do you really want to do in post? Highly skilled professional or "Jack of all trades master of none"? Which ultimately pays most? Which is ultimately most rewarding.

-- AND: Are you prepared to not only be responsible for audio being to spec, but also video?

My guess is that you're actually right about things converging and that there's a benefit to it to decent size of the market, but the question is if it's better to add stuff to Nuendo or simply learn how to operate Resolve alongside Nuendo instead. I for one would rather become good at Resolve and very good at Nuendo than having to deal with upcoming issues with video features... and 'yes', I'm absolutely being a pessimist about that.
Man oh man, all this talk - sorry but It seems like you're not even stopping to think. You are typing here with such confidence but are ignoring so many variables that exist maybe outside your own narrow sliver of what you - personally - do, which maybe has commonality with what other people also do. so what. I don't understand what it is you are trying to dictate or why, in terms of what a high skilled professional can or can't be doing without being considered a jack of all master of none? I want to do the work that I want to do, I want to accomplish creative objectives I have in mind, parameters of workflow resulting in variations of outcome. I'm not worried about people asking me to do something I don't do, or don't want to do. I'm sorry I just find this to be an incredibly shallow conversation.

I have projects and ideas, I want, as a highly skilled professional that would benefit immensely from what I am describing that no other DAW or NLE on the market offers. None of you have to do anything you don't want to... Or maybe you should evolve and not get so stuck on how you have been working for 30 years, otherwise, you will become obsolete.

There are people who are combined media artists, they are highly skilled professionals - I wouldn't consider Brian Eno a jack of all master of none.

Maybe everyone here should listen to me :lol:

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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:31 pm

ResonantMind wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 am
Maybe everyone here should listen to me :lol:
Sure.

What's your real name?
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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:40 pm

So, just because I have 30 years of experience I can’t think ”outside the box”?
I mean really?!

I most definately think outside the box a lot. I am very keen on new features and have suggested many on my own. But in this case your idea just is a bad idea that would lead to difficulties. You are entitled to your opinnions, but stop this arrogant attitude.
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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by Heiner Einbier » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:59 pm

Guys, just stop feeding the troll already.
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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by PleaseDontBanMe » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:48 am

I'm curious if this could be done via ARA2?

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Re: The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Post by TEEF » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:22 am

PleaseDontBanMe wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:48 am
I'm curious if this could be done via ARA2?
https://figure53.com/lockstep/

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