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Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:09 am
by razor7music
Hello All--

I bought WL7 in time to get the free upgrade to WL8 and I have been watching videos and reading articles about the new dithering algorithm from Izotpoe and I'm working on a Dance Pop track that I am wondering if it's worth pushing off a little until 8 comes out.

Of course it's not just the dithering but the other features I'm wondering about as well. I suppose I can master it in 7 and re-master it in 8, but I have other projects I can move around and wait until 8 comes out to do any mastering of the Dance Pop song.

What are your thoughts? :?:

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:14 pm
by Vocalpoint
razor7music wrote:Hello All--

I bought WL7 in time to get the free upgrade to WL8 and I have been watching videos and reading articles about the new dithering algorithm from Izotpoe and I'm working on a Dance Pop track that I am wondering if it's worth pushing off a little until 8 comes out.

Of course it's not just the dithering but the other features I'm wondering about as well. I suppose I can master it in 7 and re-master it in 8, but I have other projects I can move around and wait until 8 comes out to do any mastering of the Dance Pop song.

What are your thoughts? :?:
I wouldn't think there would a single human ear out there that would notice any difference in a dithering algorithm - especially in a dance pop track. I say roll on with what you have.

Cheers,

VP

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:46 pm
by TimoWildenhain
Vocalpoint wrote:
razor7music wrote:Hello All--

I bought WL7 in time to get the free upgrade to WL8 and I have been watching videos and reading articles about the new dithering algorithm from Izotpoe and I'm working on a Dance Pop track that I am wondering if it's worth pushing off a little until 8 comes out.

Of course it's not just the dithering but the other features I'm wondering about as well. I suppose I can master it in 7 and re-master it in 8, but I have other projects I can move around and wait until 8 comes out to do any mastering of the Dance Pop song.

What are your thoughts? :?:
I wouldn't think there would a single human ear out there that would notice any difference in a dithering algorithm - especially in a dance pop track. I say roll on with what you have.

Cheers,

VP
Hello,

not saying this because I'd like to sell the product ;) BUT you can actually really hear the difference.
This is much more advanced than the (meanwhile quite old) Apogee dither.

Thanks,
Timo

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:34 pm
by PG
WaveLab 8 has a new mode called "Monitor 16 bit dithering", in the Master Section. When activated, it amplifies the dithered signal by +48dB, to make it clearly audible. This works with any dithering plugin, hence you will be able to make your own comparisons. In any case, to hear dithering, use decaying sounds such as piano or voices. When they reach silence, quantization noise is clearly heard if there is no dithering.

Izotope dithering is very soft to my ears.

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm
by razor7music
PG wrote:WaveLab 8 has a new mode called "Monitor 16 bit dithering", in the Master Section. When activated, it amplifies the dithered signal by +48dB, to make it clearly audible. This works with any dithering plugin, hence you will be able to make your own comparisons. In any case, to hear dithering, use decaying sounds such as piano or voices. When they reach silence, quantization noise is clearly heard if there is no dithering.

Izotope dithering is very soft to my ears.
When you say I can use the monitoring to compare, does that mean the Apogee dithering algo will still be part of WL8 along side Izotope?

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:29 pm
by PG
When you say I can use the monitoring to compare, does that mean the Apogee dithering algo will still be part of WL8 along side Izotope?
Yes.

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:49 am
by panatrope
PG wrote:WaveLab 8 has a new mode called "Monitor 16 bit dithering", in the Master Section. When activated, it amplifies the dithered signal by +48dB, to make it clearly audible.
Interesting. This appears to be a an ASL (Arithmetic Shift Left, assuming MSB is on the 'left') by 8 bits, to remove the 8 most significant 0s to preserve bit-wise the exact dithering pattern to allow this comparison.

You may recall I have previously asked for the possibly of a facility for 'volume' change by a nominated amount of bits (LSR/LSL)for this particular purpose and for other forensic purposes.

This general facility wouldn't have made it into WL8, perchance?

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:53 am
by PG
You may recall I have previously asked for the possibly of a facility for 'volume' change by a nominated amount of bits (LSR/LSL)for this particular purpose and for other forensic purposes.
This general facility wouldn't have made it into WL8, perchance?
No, sorry

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:47 pm
by razor7music
PG wrote:
When you say I can use the monitoring to compare, does that mean the Apogee dithering algo will still be part of WL8 along side Izotope?
Yes.
That's cool. :D

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:14 pm
by Bane
I agree with Vocalpoint. I have personally used Apogee UV22HR (sometimes even the legacy version) on all my tracks. I've never heard a single bit of difference. Apogee has been used in Cubase by tons of people for ages. If you have iZotope's, use it; but other dithering plugins wont be a showstopper on your tracks. I just wouldn't recommend using dithering as an excuse to buy v8. There are plenty of better reasons. ;)

Re: Is Izotope Dithering That Much Better Than Apogee?

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:36 pm
by Vocalpoint
Bane wrote:I agree with Vocalpoint. I have personally used Apogee UV22HR (sometimes even the legacy version) on all my tracks. I've never heard a single bit of difference. Apogee has been used in Cubase by tons of people for ages. If you have iZotope's, use it; but other dithering plugins wont be a showstopper on your tracks. I just wouldn't recommend using dithering as an excuse to buy v8. There are plenty of better reasons. ;)
Thanks! As I have I have iZotope RX2 and Soundforge 10 - which both sport the MBIT+ dithering - I have had plenty of opportunity to compare these with the Apogee - and like I mentioned - if you can really tell the difference - your ears are light years beyond mine.

They all sound great...but MBIT+ is no where near a strong enough "must have" feature that should sway someone into WL8.

VP