Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

sdesign
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Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:17 am

Hi,

There seems to be an issue with the MIDI Clock / tick messages being sent to other apps when you are using loop points (particularly noticeable if you set one bar looping).

Each time the the bar loops the receiving apps tempo will drift out slightly. This doesn't happen with those same apps if you don't use Loop Points and just let the song run, they will stay perfectly in sync, so it seems that the transport is definitely an issue at the Loop Points.

This doesn't happen with all apps, so I guess some apps (depending on how they implemented MIDI Clock Sync, Song Position, Continue etc.) handle this issue better than others, but it is definitely a Cubasis Loop Point issue as it doesn't happen when your not looping. You can actually hear it drifting with each pass of the Loop Point. The apps that I tested that struggle with keeping tempo when using Loop Points are DM1 and Electrify NXT.

I've tested this issue my iPad Mini Retina. I also tested it on my kids iPad 3 and iPad Mini (non-retina) all running the attest OS and version of Cubasis. All devices show the same behaviour.

I'm hoping you guys can fix this issue :-)

Alex

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by nozric » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:54 pm

I've found this too, although the problem occurs before even trying to sync to another app. There seems to be some kind of internal timing problem when using loop markers.

To illustrate, try setting the BPM to 120 and setting a one bar loop with the metronome on. If you run it against a stopwatch you'd expect the tick of the metronome to occur *exactly* every 0.5 seconds (so two ticks per second). After just a few loops the tempo will start to drift. Quite noticeably too. So much so that it's impossible to use loops in Cubasis and sync them to anything else.

Like you, I've tried this on several devices and all have the same problem.

I'm surprised no-one else has reported this. Seems like quite a big deal to have such an important thing broken.

I'm really hoping they fix this too as it's useless to me without being able to sync loops in Cubasis to Ableton Live.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Sun May 04, 2014 11:38 am

Any chance this can be fixed in the next update?

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sps » Thu May 15, 2014 10:26 am

Hello,
same Prob here. I get no answer either from support or from forum.
It seem´s to me general midiclock prob. Because Miditempo is calculated, so it must have a few bars to calculat the bpm. But thats not the reason for synced loop desaster alone. I never get a stable loop with extern Equipment. the only workaround for is to set the bpm the extern device and disable the clockout in Cubase. Then record the loop and turn the clock on again.
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sdesign
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Thu May 15, 2014 11:31 am

It's not a problem with all apps though. BOOM 909! Was released in the AppStore today and it syncs perfectly with Cubasis. I think it's something that can be fixed by third party developers, but I do wonder if there's something that could be done with Cubasis that could help to remedy the issue.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by nozric » Mon May 19, 2014 7:52 pm

@sdesign - I've found it syncs with Boom 909 quite well too. But check again! Although they sound to be playing in time, the drift is still definitely there. Again, running it alongside something external which is running at the same tempo and Cubasis is still speeding up when using loop points. So even when apps appear to sync, they're just syncing to Cusasis's broken MIDI clock and managing to keep up. It's as though it's missing out a tiny part of the loop each time it repeats.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by Dave Magoo » Thu May 22, 2014 11:34 am

Interesting to see no comment from the Steinberg team. They must still be investigating....

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Fri May 23, 2014 12:25 am

They don't seem to comment on bugs reports, which I find a little arrogant to be honest.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by bry » Fri May 23, 2014 2:44 pm

They usually do actually...
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sdesign
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Fri May 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Not in my experience.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by Mondwest » Sun May 25, 2014 4:52 pm

Hello
I don't have problem while syncing seekbeats (analog synth drum machine).
Sync is tight ,I can play loop during 30min ,even tweak seekbeats sounds.You re problems
Come from your apps or your iPad probably.

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by Hiltmann » Wed May 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Hi All,

Sorry Customers, I was absence in this forum for cubasis 1.8 automation implementation.

I can confirmed 5 ms cycle jitter only on beat 1 in cycle playback with iElectribe & Cubasis.

It is hardly audible but it's measurably.

Not all cycle jitter with midi clock and other apps is caused by cubasis, but this 5 ms jitter is definitly caused by us.

We are investigate and looking for a fix and we will inform if we have a solution.

Thanks to all the Guys they hear the grass growing.

best jan
Jan Hiltmann, Test Engineer - Content
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by nozric » Wed May 28, 2014 11:46 pm

Thanks for confirming this, Jan.

Yes, a 5ms jitter on beat 1 when looped would definitely explain why I've been having problems when keeping in time with an external tempo.

Hoping it's possible to fix...

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Sat May 31, 2014 8:01 am

Yes thanks for confirming, glad you are working on fixing this! :-)

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by soundog » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:55 pm

Hiltmann wrote:Hi All,

I can confirmed 5 ms cycle jitter only on beat 1 in cycle playback with iElectribe & Cubasis.

It is hardly audible but it's measurably.

Not all cycle jitter with midi clock and other apps is caused by cubasis, but this 5 ms jitter is definitly caused by us.

We are investigate and looking for a fix and we will inform if we have a solution.

best jan
Has this been fixed? Thanks....

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by sdesign » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:11 am

Unfortunately not :-(

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by Hiltmann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:24 am

Hi,

No, currently isn't fixed. We will inform you, if we have a fix.

best
jan
Jan Hiltmann, Test Engineer - Content
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by Richtowns » Fri May 12, 2017 8:36 pm

Im getting this problem also. Still no news?
Im hoping someone has found a workaround. I hope it's not, dont use loops point when syncing!?

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by LSlowak » Mon May 15, 2017 8:49 am

Richtowns wrote:Im getting this problem also. Still no news?
Im hoping someone has found a workaround. I hope it's not, dont use loops point when syncing!?
Hi Richtowns,

Please provide us with the project plus exakt step by step description, so we're able to reproduce the issue.
Please use Dropbox or something similar for the upload and let me have the download link via private message.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by tuquoque » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:04 pm

Hi all and Steinberg support. I'm a new Cubasis user and a new forum member.

Logged in because I have the same problem mentioned on this thread. Cubasis 2 midi timing looses sync when using loop points. Without loop points the sync seems to work. I have iPad pro with latest iOS and my interface is Roland Duo-Capture EX. I bought Cubasis to be used as a companion for my Ditto x4 looper and because of this bug it's completely useless for me.

This bug was found long time ago, any news or plans to fix it? Thanks!

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by tuquoque » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Ok. I just updated my iOS and downloaded Garageband 2.2. It now has midi clock out and stays in perfect sync when using loop points. My journey with Cubasis is over. It's funny, GB costs 4,9USD and works like a charm. Cubasis costs almost 50USD and is full of bugs and the support seems to be, well, there ain't no support. Have fun with the bugs!

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by LSlowak » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:16 am

tuquoque wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:46 pm
Ok. I just updated my iOS and downloaded Garageband 2.2. It now has midi clock out and stays in perfect sync when using loop points. My journey with Cubasis is over. It's funny, GB costs 4,9USD and works like a charm. Cubasis costs almost 50USD and is full of bugs and the support seems to be, well, there ain't no support. Have fun with the bugs!
Hi tuquoque,

Thanks for your message.

I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with Cubasis.

The same way I'd like to let you know that we take customer support and maintenance for our Cubasis app very seriously - as you can see with the high number of free updates over the years.

In my last reply, I've asked you for the exact steps to reproduce the problem.
This helps us trying to reproduce the problem and giving you a feedback.

Thanks,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by tuquoque » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:34 am

Hi! Thanks for replying. What exact steps do you need? Just make a drum loop track, turn it's loop points on, sync the app with external midi device and see/hear if it stays synced. It will not. Every time the loop starts from the top, the time gab between Cubasis and external device grows. Just try it and you'll learn.

EDIT: And if I may remind you, you've had the "exact steps" three years ago 2014 (read the thread from the top) and one of your staff members (Jan Hiltmann) verified the bug exists promising there will be a fix. It's been three years, for heavens sake!

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by LSlowak » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:06 am

Hi,

Please refer to this topic to learn how to file a bug report:
viewtopic.php?f=183&t=105096

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Post by tuquoque » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:32 pm

Ok, let's do this.

1. Summary/Title
(Provide a short but descriptive sentence that summaries the issue or feature request)

ANSWER: Cubasis 2.2 looses sync when using loop points

2. Description
(Provide a detailed description and list the step by step process to reproduce the issue to help the team to understand and reproduce the problem)

ANSWER:
A) Greate a new file and name it
B) Add a Cubasis internal drum loop to track 1
C) Turn on the Loop points (any measures)
D) Turn on the midi clock out
E) Choose the used midi out device and midi channel
F) Click Play
G) Record the loop to external midi gear in real time
H) Let the devices play in sync

3. Expected Results
(Describe what you expected to see)

ANSWER: You would expect the Cubasis to stay in sync with external midi device as all the similar software's (like Garageband) do.

4. Actual Results
(Describe what you actually saw)

ANSWER: Cubasis looses sync. Every new round of played loop points grows the time gap. The problem exists no matter how long the time between loop points is (tested 1-8 measures)

5. Environment
(Count the hardware and software including version numbers being used)

ANSWER:
Hardware: iPad Pro 9.7"
Operating system: Apple iOS 10.3.2
Software: Steinberg Cubasis 2.2
Midi interface: Roland Duo-Capture EX
External midi gear: TC Electronic Ditto x4

And I wan't to stress, my gear is working. The same setup and procedure with Garageband 2.2 works perfectly, the sync is tight. Let me know if there's something else you need, thanks!

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