[3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

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musikeer
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[3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by musikeer » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:24 pm

The iPad Air 3’s sample rate is the same as the iPad Pros, locked to 48k. Cubasis only works with 48k audio natively. Projects have been recorded and built at 44.1k within Cubasis on an Air 2. The Air 2 has been struggling to keep up with added MIDI apps and efx, hence the purchase of the Air 3. When opening existing Cubasis projects that were created on an Air 2, on an Air 3, and converting the audio (as the Cubasis message recommends "for higher quality audio"), the audio tracks are resized, making them out of sync. When making the choice not to convert the audio, all (audio tracks) stay correctly in sync.

However, SynthScaper LE MIDI tracks were out of tune on all instances. I went no further to test other apps/efx rtc. Terrifying to imagine what other unexpected problems crop up next. Yes, I could freeze all the MIDI tracks that don’t convert correctly, before opening the project in Cubasis on the Air 3, but would like to avoid that step.

If the projects start at 48k in Cubasis, I assume all the plugins/synths would then be in tune/sync. It’s obviously the conversion that’s creating the problem. Is it up to each developer to allow for this? Have they all? Am I doing something wrong within Cubasis, which seems unlikely? 48k is dictated by the iPad unless using an interface (in this case a Focusrite 18i8, which allows for 44.1 and 96k), which isn’t always desired/utilized.

I've read conflicting reports that the Lightning to 3.5mm headphone adapter can allow for this. Is there a small dongle-like interface just for portability’s sake, that will allow Cubasis projects on the Air 3 to continue to recognize 44.1? Or any other solution?

Thanks for any help with this…

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Re: Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by Hiltmann » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:45 pm

Hi musikeer,

> If the projects start at 48k in Cubasis, I assume all the plugins/synths would then be in tune/sync.

Only if your synths/plugins support 48 khz.

I can't reproduce this for now with iPAD Pro 11, 3 gen, iOS 12.3.1, Cubasis 2.8
Maybe it's a third party plugin that doesn't support 48 khz.

Normally after loading the Air 2 /44 khz project on the Air 3 only a message should appear that the sample rate has changed to 48 khz, if you don't have an audio interface connected. If you have connected an audio interface to the Air 3 your Air 2 project will be loaded in the original samplerate. ( eg 44 khz) If you disconnect the audio interface after loading the project, Cubasis remembers the new sample rate of your project (48khz) for the future, when all your synths/plugins support 48 khz.

To narrow down your problem try the following :

- load your Air 2 project 44 khz on Air 2 and change in setup the samplerate to 48 khz
Note : If a synths/plugin does not support 48 khz you get an error message and you are not allowed to change from 44 khz to 48 khz in setup.
- if change from 44 khz to 48 khz is possible, convert all files to 48 khz or not.
- import the Air 2 project on the Air 3 into Cubasis
Expected result : The conversion message does not appear and all files are in sync.

or

- take a snapshot of your Air 2/ 44 khz project
- unload all your Third Party Plugins+Instruments in the Snapshot
- upload your Air2 /44 khz snapshot project on your Air 3
Expected result : The conversion message does not appear and all files are in sync.

Is the conversion message still coming without any third party synths/plugins in your project ?

or

- connect your audio interface befor you load your Air 2 /44 khz projects on the Air 3.
Expected Result : The conversion message does not appear and all files are in sync, project samplerate is on 44 khz in setup.
- set by hand in setup 48 khz or disconnect the audio interface after loading the Air 2 / 44 khz project on iPAD Air 3.
Expected Result : The Air 2 project samplerate is change to 48 khz in setup and has now saved it in the project on iPAD Air 3.

greetings
jan
Jan Hiltmann, Test Engineer - Content
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by musikeer » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:12 pm

HI Jan...

Thanks for your detailed reply... and it all makes sense to me. Rather than try to keep everything at 44.1, it's obvious that 48k is now what seems to be becoming "the standard", at least on iOS, at least with Cubasis. Going back and forth with cables and alternate iPads and interfaces just to retain the 44.1 sample rate doesn't seem a sensible workflow. I wish there were a way for Cubasis to still allow users a choice between 44.1 and 48k, and if "crackling" occurs, then the user can decide to change sample rates. Perhaps this isn't the best way to code things.

The problems, for me, were narrowed down to two apps, SynthScaper LE and SynthMaster Player, that deal incorrectly with the sample rate change. I've communicated with Igor, at SynthScaper, and evidently a fix is to come. He recommends using the IAA version, but of course that doesn't retain the preset/patch settings. I haven't gottten in touch with the SynthMaster developers yet.

If these apps are the only problems (for me), I'll be relieved to know that I can continue creating on the Air 3, but it just creates a bit of worry about future apps/hosts/hardware successfully communicating with each other. The longevity of archived projects is also in question. Who knows what Apple/Cubasis/developers will change in the future for their individual reasons, creating other workflow problems for users? I'm wondering why some developers are not having problems with the sample change, while others are? Everything is transitory as we know...

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Re: Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:33 pm

Hi musikeer,

Please note that we've informed Bulent from KV331 (Synthmaster) and Igor from iMusicAlbum (SynthScaper) regarding the topic.
Igor already replied to let me know that a fix is in progress, planned to be released in an update very soon.
He recommends using the IAA version, but of course that doesn't retain the preset/patch settings.
In regards to Inter-App Audio, Apple recently announced at this years' WWDC 2019 that the format will be discontinued in the future.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:31 pm

Hi musikeer again,

Bulent from KV331 informed me that they will look at the SynthMaster Player issue.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by musikeer » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:16 pm

Thanks for the update, Lars. I hope they can figure it out. And one of the main reasons I invested in a new Air 3 is because SynthScaper was one of the most CPU-intensive apps I use. It's good that Igor seems to be on it.
Last edited by musikeer on Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:37 am

Thanks for the update, musikeer!

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by musikeer » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:19 pm

Igor has updated SynthScaper LE, and the tracks and patches are back in tune and all seems well. The conversion from 44.1 to 48k is trouble-free, so the AU version as well as the IAA again work fine on the iPad Air 3. Hopefully the rest of the apps that have the same problem can be updated, especially (for me) SynthMaster Player. Thanks again to a very responsive developer, who is also an excellent communicator!

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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:16 am

musikeer wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:19 pm
Igor has updated SynthScaper LE, and the tracks and patches are back in tune and all seems well. The conversion from 44.1 to 48k is trouble-free, so the AU version as well as the IAA again work fine on the iPad Air 3. Hopefully the rest of the apps that have the same problem can be updated, especially (for me) SynthMaster Player. Thanks again to a very responsive developer, who is also an excellent communicator!
Hi Musikeer,

Great to heart that Igor did already update SynthScaper LE.
I'm confident, the other app vendors will follow accordingly.

Thanks,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by valfisch » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Hi everyone!
I'm stuggling with small 44.1/48 issues too: recording and playback in cubasis (2.8.1) on an ipad mini (5th gen) works without problems so far, but the automatic samplerate adjustion confuses me seriously. does anyone have an idea why the sample rate of the project flips to 44.1KHz when i connect my focusrite scarlett interface? the interface is preset to 48KHz, and as much i found out, the ipad prefers this samplerate (specially when no interface is connected). i created the project at 48KHz when the interface was connected. disconnecting doesn't change anything, the setting stays at 48, but will flip back to 44.1 when i reconnect.

thanks a lot to everybody, i hope i posted this in a reasonable place here in the forum.

best regards

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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:58 pm

valfisch wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:31 pm
Hi everyone!
I'm stuggling with small 44.1/48 issues too: recording and playback in cubasis (2.8.1) on an ipad mini (5th gen) works without problems so far, but the automatic samplerate adjustion confuses me seriously. does anyone have an idea why the sample rate of the project flips to 44.1KHz when i connect my focusrite scarlett interface? the interface is preset to 48KHz, and as much i found out, the ipad prefers this samplerate (specially when no interface is connected). i created the project at 48KHz when the interface was connected. disconnecting doesn't change anything, the setting stays at 48, but will flip back to 44.1 when i reconnect.

thanks a lot to everybody, i hope i posted this in a reasonable place here in the forum.

best regards
Hi valfish,

Please have a look at our revised sample rate handling in Cubasis 2.7 article.

Hope that helps to answer your question!

Best wishes,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by valfisch » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:53 pm

thank you very much! i'm going to check it out.

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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by valfisch » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:03 pm

i still don't understand why the projects sample rate flips to 44.1 when i plug in the interface that's set to 48khz mode...
not a big problem though, i can do it manually.

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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by LSlowak » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:16 pm

valfisch wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:03 pm
i still don't understand why the projects sample rate flips to 44.1 when i plug in the interface that's set to 48khz mode...
not a big problem though, i can do it manually.
Hi valfish,

As explained in the article, the project sample rate switch is dictated by Apple, and comes into play if the iPad device does not support the sample rate currently set.

Best wishes,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: [3rd Party Issue] Problems Converting Cubasis 44.1 projects to 48k, from Air 2 to Air 3

Post by valfisch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm

ah i see, so i was wrong assuming that 48khz is the native rate on the ipad mini 2019.

thank you!

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