Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

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kimeiroma
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Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by kimeiroma » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:30 pm

First of all, Lars and the team, thanks for a great app and the continuous refinements of the features in Cubasis and the new update!

In fact, I recently came back to Cubasis from auria pro because of the obvious benefits that Cubasis offers for the desktop Cubase user. But I love the familiar and efficient workflow within the Cubasis app itself as well.

I have a couple of questions related to the use case of doing preliminary recording and production using Cubasis and, in particular, building the basic arrangement and setting up the "premix" for eventually exporting the project to Cubase pro on the desktop. The premix for me would involve setting the gain/trim for each track, fader levels, pan and basic eq and compression using the channel strip, which I use in Cubase pro (and settings are transferred perfectly with Cubasis project importer). Depending on the project, I will add send effects like reverb here already or then import the project to Cubase Pro for further tweaking.

In order to allow for proper gain staging, which is the first stage in starting with a mix, I would welcome some refinements in the mixer section and stock channel strip:
- Add a proper pre gain trim: at the moment, on import to Cubase desktop, the High/Low cut (HC/LC) settings on the channel strip are transferred correctly into the "Pre" section of Cubase desktop, which has "gain" as a parameter, so it would be natural to have a "gain" knob in the pre section of Cubasis as well.
- The pre gain trim should obviously be pre fader before any inserts; in Cubasis if it were added to the channel strip (which doesn't have eq), the order would have to be channel strip>studioeq, even though you would prefer to have eq before the channel strip. I think it would be most straightforward to integrate the 4 band eq into the channel strip just like the desktop Cubase channel strip has. Then the pre gain/HC/LC would be at the start of the channel strip.
- In combination with pre gain trim, peak/rms metering is essential!
- I am aware that the IAP Waves Audiotrack (which I purchased right away) has eq-gate-compression as well as input/output trim, but in order to replace the built in channel strip, the settings would have to be able to be transferred on import into Cubase desktop, provided you have the desktop version of the Audiotrack. Otherwise it doesn't serve the workflow at all. Will it already work this way for the IAP effects (Waves) if you have them on desktop?

In addition to the Steinberg plugins, also with other cross-platform (iOS-desktop) AUv3 plugins, like Audiodamage etc., the ultimate workflow would be that also these effects and their settings would be transferred over to desktop using the project importer. And if these aren't available, the effects slot in Cubase desktop would say "missing plugin: (name)".

Also, basic mixing workflow improvements would be sub group channels, folder tracks, full screen mixer view, as has been requested on the Audiobus forum and here previously. I think the refinement suggestions I made above are equally useful for my Cubasis premixing to Cubase Pro final mix use case, as they are for users that intend to finish their tracks in Cubasis.

I very much would enjoy setting up the fundamental things in a mix (pre gain trim, track eq/comp, panning, fader levels, subgroups) in Cubasis, in order to then continue smoothly with the creative tweaking in Cubase Pro. I am confident that Cubasis is getting there, based on the dedicated efforts so far!

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by stoeckli » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:07 am

+1

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by Metallion » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:05 am

As a user of both plataforms, i understand the complexity of the data conversions. So, i don't mix in Cubasis expecting the "same" result after a project import from Cubase. And i don't even try it and not desire it. I prefer that the programers spend that time adding more functions on ipad.

After all, thats were the future will work.

When i have a more complex work which needs record, mix, etc, what i do is, i use ipad Cubasis only for record and make a easy and fast mix for the musicians. After the files are recorded, i export those files for desktop and work 100% there from scratch...

...now, what i think we really need in Cubasis are the export options like we have in Cubase. Mono/stereo/each channel/all channels/etc. that's what i miss the most.

kimeiroma
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by kimeiroma » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:15 am

Metallion wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:05 am

After all, thats were the future will work.
I agree! And many of the feature requests will specifically benefit also those that aim to take their mix in Cubasis all the way. The very basic stuff like pre gain trim and metering or sub group busses.

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by kimeiroma » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:55 pm

Revisiting this topic as I have been using Cubase Pro 9.5 again for finishing and mixing tracks created in iOS and am relearning to use it after a long break. Workflow is definitely super efficient when you learn all keyboard shortcuts etc which I previously hadn't looked into that much. I still love the stripped down and immediate way of creating tracks on iOS (Cubasis and BM3) and will keep it that way. I usually create mostly in BM3 and export to Cubasis for building the final linear arrangement and then if needed, add/change things while still on iOS. Then I proceed to do a "static mix" in Cubasis, after which I export the project to Cubase desktop. In other words, I try to take the process as far as I can on iOS. Subgroup and folder tracks
and PRE gain would ideally be set at this stage.

I like using the Cubase channel strip for gain staging and basic processing. I have recently been using the Waves Audiotrack because of it's input and output gain control, but I would in many cases prefer to keep it simple and use the Cubase channel strip.

One thing that is missing in Cubasis is the channel strip PRE / Hi-cut / Low-cut section.

Lars, do you have any update on if this will be coming to Cubasis in the next updates?

Thanks alot.

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:06 pm

kimeiroma wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:55 pm
One thing that is missing in Cubasis is the channel strip PRE / Hi-cut / Low-cut section.
Lars, do you have any update on if this will be coming to Cubasis in the next updates?

Thanks alot.
Hi kimeiroma,

Thanks for your message.

The Cubasis channel strip comes with a cut filter allowing low and high cut settings.
So far, we have no plans to release the channel strip PRE / Hi / Lo Section in Cubasis shortly.

Thanks
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by MarcoE » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:21 pm

In terms of Cubasis2Cubase. My major break down of the workflow is the fact, that it is not possible to import the MiniSampler presets (*.cbi) into Groove Agent. I work a lot with my own samples and sample libraries. When I e.g. create a drum kit in Cubasis, I have a hell of work to recreate the same drum kit in Cubase again.
I have another issue as well. Within Cubasis, I record a song from my USB turntable and copy&paste a loop from that song into a new Cubasis project. I chop it and stretch it into the beat. It syncs fine within Cubasis. But after importing it to Cubase, it is not in sync. The start of the loop is not correct, and the stretch information is lost. It could be implemented with audio warp markers. However, I know, it is complicated to get the stretch information into Cubase.
I commute a lot by train and use Cubasis for ideation, but the import to Cubase to finalize ideas is a nightmare for me (sample based music and I want to keep the midi information for easy tweaking to develop my ideas further).
Cubase Pro 10.5.0 @ Windows 10 Home v1909 @ i9-9900K 32GB @ Gigabyte Z370 HD3P

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:39 am

MarcoE wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:21 pm
The start of the loop is not correct, and the stretch information is lost. It could be implemented with audio warp markers. However, I know, it is complicated to get the stretch information into Cubase.
Hi MarcoE,

Please give it a try to use Track Freeze on these tracks, to export regular WAV files to Cubase along with your other project-related files.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by MarcoE » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:05 pm

Hey Lars,

thank you. That is what I do. Can you please give a statement about cbi Import at Cubase?
Thanks Marco
Cubase Pro 10.5.0 @ Windows 10 Home v1909 @ i9-9900K 32GB @ Gigabyte Z370 HD3P

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by Falcore123 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:36 am

+1

I just ran into this very same problem. The Mini Sampler in Cubasis doesn't translate to Groove Agent in Cubase 9.5 properly. It creates an instance of Groove Agent but it doesn't load any samples. The .cbi file is over 10MB so my drum samples are in there. Is it really that hard for Cubase to load these samples into GA?

I spend a lot of time creating these drum kits in Cubasis and then I have to recreate everything again in Cubase. Really annoying.

Without seamless integration between Steinberg apps I might as well stick with Korg Gadget for now.

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by kimeiroma » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:38 am

The reason I create mainly in BM3 and transfer my projects via Cubasis to Cubase 9.5 is BM3's powerful sampler. On desktop I used to use NI Battery 3/4 similarly in almost everything I created. When Groove Agent 4 was released, I switched from NI Battery to GA4 as it is so powerful and well integrated with Cubase.
Now, if the Minisampler would be further developed towards a "Groove Agent for iOS" with smooth transition from iOS to desktop GA4, my workflow could be all Cubasis -> Cubase Pro!

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by OnyxMystique » Sat May 05, 2018 10:52 pm

Falcore123 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:36 am
+1

I just ran into this very same problem. The Mini Sampler in Cubasis doesn't translate to Groove Agent in Cubase 9.5 properly. It creates an instance of Groove Agent but it doesn't load any samples. The .cbi file is over 10MB so my drum samples are in there. Is it really that hard for Cubase to load these samples into GA?

I spend a lot of time creating these drum kits in Cubasis and then I have to recreate everything again in Cubase. Really annoying.

Without seamless integration between Steinberg apps I might as well stick with Korg Gadget for now.
I have a similar workflow and have the same problem. It is not just a minor problem, but a huge problem, especially if you are still working on the song and may make changes to your drum parts. Suggesting to just use track freeze assumes you are completely done with your track, and that eliminates the advantage of importing from Cubasis to Cubase which is to start on a track in Cubasis and then develope it further in Cubase with a larger sample library and plug ins. My iPad memory limitations is what drove me to a laptop and Cubase.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why there is such a powerful sampler in the $50 Cubasis and not the equivalent in the $100 Cubase Elements. There does not seem to be any way to create a multi sample instrument in Elements the way you can in Cubasis outside of Groove Agent. That’s is how I create my drum libraries. I make one instrument with all my favorite snare samples. This way, I can write the part on my go to sample and then slide the midi around or transpose and demo the other sounds very easily to see which sample sounds best for that part in the rest of the music. I can even copy the midi to layer two or more samples. It works like a dream in Cubasis. Why make the ability to import from Cubasis to Cubase and not make the same sampler in both with all of the work you did tranfsrable? The solution here is not to have to freeze the track. The solution is to make the two platforms fully integrateable.

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by psanz » Sun May 13, 2018 10:48 am

Hello,
First, ask forgiveness for my googleinglish ... I'm sorry ...

I am new .... very new in these issues, I have just entered Cubase Elements (my first DAW) and for the moment, although I do not have any knowledge, I liked it a lot, so much so that I'm considering getting into an iPad, to put the Cubase IC to remote control my cubase and put also the Cubasis, for when I leave home, but reading your comments, a neophyte like me, is scared and a lot.

I only intend a very basic level of hobby, to entertain myself, so I will not use large filters and insertions in inputs and outputs, so I would like you to tell me if you see it viable, without too much suffering ...

The idea would be to work on the desktop computer and if I travel, export it to the iPad, and on the way back, import it back to the desktop to continue.

I do not know if there is any more appropriate thread for my doubt, so I apologize in advance and I would greatly appreciate your opinion, I think you are quite advanced in these issues.

Thank you very much,
Paco

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Mon May 14, 2018 11:30 am

psanz wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:48 am
Hello,
First, ask forgiveness for my googleinglish ... I'm sorry ...

I am new .... very new in these issues, I have just entered Cubase Elements (my first DAW) and for the moment, although I do not have any knowledge, I liked it a lot, so much so that I'm considering getting into an iPad, to put the Cubase IC to remote control my cubase and put also the Cubasis, for when I leave home, but reading your comments, a neophyte like me, is scared and a lot.

I only intend a very basic level of hobby, to entertain myself, so I will not use large filters and insertions in inputs and outputs, so I would like you to tell me if you see it viable, without too much suffering ...

The idea would be to work on the desktop computer and if I travel, export it to the iPad, and on the way back, import it back to the desktop to continue.

I do not know if there is any more appropriate thread for my doubt, so I apologize in advance and I would greatly appreciate your opinion, I think you are quite advanced in these issues.

Thank you very much,
Paco
Hi psanz,

Here is a tutorial from our friends at musicappblog, that explains the tutorial to import Cubasis projects with Cubasis via the Cubasis Importer extension:

http://musicappblog.com/cubasis-workshop-2/

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by psanz » Wed May 16, 2018 8:51 pm

Thanks for this contribution ... For those who do not know where to start, it is a great help

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Thu May 17, 2018 12:09 pm

psanz wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:51 pm
Thanks for this contribution ... For those who do not know where to start, it is a great help
Thanks for your feedback, appreciated!

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by whitelight » Wed May 23, 2018 5:57 pm

Well, I have made a really annoying experience with the Cubasis to Cubase workflow:
On some tracks I had recorded Vocals within Cubasis. I was in a hotel room and wanted to test my mobile Studio (Cubasis 2.4.1, Steinberg UR44 and a Rode NT1a Mic. I was stunned at the quality I got.
I also recorded some Guitars. Stunned again.
I mixed everything to my happiness.

Now: Yesterday I imported everything into Cubase Pro 9.5. The workflow was a dream with the Cubasis Wifi-Server!

But then: My recorded voices were really messed up!
I had lots of little events within Cubasis, for I recorded only sentences, sometimes just words. Within Cubasis I gain staged the words, used Fades-INs and -Outs. Everything was wonderful. But in Cubase: Partly nothing to hear from my events. Large Overlappings of events that were originally little snippets. A big mess, I could not work back to what it was in Cubasis.
Same for my guitar recordings: My Event-snippets were completely messed up large events, all overlapping. Nothing to rescue.

And another annoying thing, but that would be a minor problem: Of course I used the Channel Strip. I used the Gate. But completely wrong values had been transferred to my Cubase for the Gate, so everything sounded even more weird!

My workaround for that mess was of course to freeze the whole tracks (without effects) and that transfer worked well.
But! Now I had to split my events again for individual processing of words or sentences.

So, my question: Will this bug be fixed? (Its not in the known issues of Cubasis Project Importer). I mean, the correct transfer of Events with their fades and gains should really work, shouldnt it? (Or am I the only one with that problem)? (Sorry for the big text on that, but I was really disappointed about that)...

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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Thu May 24, 2018 9:41 am

Hi whitelight,

Thanks for your message.

Please provide us with the project and a short step description, allowing us to reproduce and evaluate the issue.
Next to the step description, please state all details about your system plus version numbers in use (both mobile and desktop, including OS versions).

Please upload the data via Dropbox, WeTransfer or similar and let me have the download link via Email.

Thanks,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by whitelight » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:43 pm

ok, thanks for that offer, I just posted a PM with that info!

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LSlowak
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:48 pm

Hi whitelight,

Thank you for sharing the projects and further information with us.
We will get back to once we have checked the issue.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: Cubasis to Cubase desktop workflow

Post by LSlowak » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:46 pm

Hi whitelight,

Thanks again for providing us with the additional information and projects, which has been reviewed by our quality assurance.

Please note that time-stretched audio events require to be mixed down (via Track Freeze) in Cubasis, to be correctly imported within Cubase. Same goes for external or unsupported instruments and effects.

In this regard, I suggest to create a snapshot of your original project first, before proceeding with these steps. Additionally, please have a look at the "Unfreeze Deletes Audio Track" option located under Setup/Arranger, if you plan to transfer both rendered audio tracks, alongside with the original MIDI tracks.

Hope that helps to solve the problem.

Best,
Lars
Lars Slowak - Project Management & Team lead Cubasis
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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