Cubasis 2 Meters

Post questions and find answers on Cubasis 2 here.
Post Reply
User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:32 pm

Hello there,
I am using Cubasis 2 for iPad in conjunction with Cubase Elements for PC.
I would like to know how to read Channel Meters and Stereo Out Meters in Cubasis, since I can't see any graduated scale and I'm not able to tell the actual value in dB of the audio I import.
Thank you,
Gianpaol
Attachments
IMG_8031.JPG
(48.13 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

Covoxer
New Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:54 am
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by Covoxer » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:01 am

The channel and master meters are graduated differently. I've got following results measuring them.
Image
2.jpg
(18.33 KiB) Not downloaded yet
PS As further testing shown, there was some mistake in my test setup. In reality, the track levels are the same as the master levels on the attached image.
Last edited by Covoxer on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:39 pm

Hello, there,
and thank you for your reply.
I've got two questions for you:
1. How did you measure them?
2. Do you think their values belong to an absolute or relative scale? Some values on the channel meter are positive, and this makes no sense in a digital environment, where 0dB is clipping.

Thank you so much,
Gianpaolo
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

Covoxer
New Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:54 am
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by Covoxer » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:50 pm

Hi Gianpaolo,

I was using two methods of measurement, both of which gave me the same result. The most obvious one was to check the input levels on the Cubasis Brickwall limiter, located at the end of the Master inserts. It has numerical representation in dB. Assuming that the master fader at 0 dB does not influence the signal, we can get the level of the soloed channels and the master output as they are both the same.
Also, to make sure that the Brickwall meter is not lying, I have placed Final Touch IAA in the master inserts. It's meters shown the same values as the Brickwall, so I assume they are both correct.

The values are in dBFS, relative to the output levels. That means, that 0 dB is a maximum level you can get on the output from the master. The higher levels are clipped at that point. However, internally Cubasis has enormous headroom. I don't know how high can it go, but testing it up to +47 dB I have not encountered any clipping internally (to hear it, you have to reduce it back to below 0 dB on the master channel, otherwise it will clip on output). You can easily see that boosting the level of the track, you get positive dB values on the Brickwall input, while master meter is clipping at 0 dB (or is limited by the Brickwall if enabled).

Also notice that if you have one channel playing, and you push it till it clips the master (the master fader being at 0 dB), the channel meter is still far from clipping. Actually, being just a tiny bit higher that the highlighter notch (probably intended to indicate 0 dB, but actually it's around -1 dB). The channel meters clip at around +15 dB.

Another interesting thing is that levels over 0 dB can be passed through IAA, but the headroom depends on the app. Final Touch clips its input at +6 dB, BIAS at about +12 dB, but most others clip at 0 dB.

Hope it helps.

John.

PS As further testing shown, there was some mistake in my test setup. In reality, the track levels are the same as the master levels.
Last edited by Covoxer on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:41 am

Thank you so much, John! I see you are quite into the subject, therefore I ask you for a comparison: I will attach the results I got using the brickwall limiter technique with a 48K 24-bit track of white noise at 0dBFS, to measure the scale of the channel fader: i just lowered the track gain (as you can see) to get the values for all the notches below 0dBFS.
Let me know if my method makes any sense to you, or if you think I'm wrong. Also, let me and the community know if you would like the next builds of Cubasis to include detailed channel level metering.
Thank you so much,
Gianpaolo
Attachments
3FE6780D-0DB5-4365-AB7D-E5567002FECD.png
(361.73 KiB) Not downloaded yet
71153CF8-E52C-4E3C-A096-B329D8133D7C.png
(329.08 KiB) Not downloaded yet
E33D0A70-6510-46F9-9BC5-8E491E392FE8.png
(328.9 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Last edited by gianpaologallian on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:44 am

Here are the second three...
Attachments
827D1C3E-B863-4B1E-916E-015A858E15C2.png
(311.55 KiB) Not downloaded yet
05DCB960-9FD4-45AB-907E-3AD9724E4F72.png
(350.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet
7DD10023-D8A9-435D-92E9-B3F17EC0F37E.png
(358.11 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:45 am

Here are the third three...
Attachments
F63A68AB-E1A5-4CDE-AA26-537247ACD0F2.png
(310.65 KiB) Not downloaded yet
5F2D808B-D559-4C7E-8B77-8A2CC6D241C5.png
(308.56 KiB) Not downloaded yet
5FCF8B52-1502-4929-932B-2A79F68BC49D.png
(342.14 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

User avatar
gianpaologallian
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by gianpaologallian » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:46 am

And the last one...
Attachments
484547AB-6ABA-4B61-A17B-B795B4302E71.png
(305.28 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Dr. Gianpaolo Gallian
Musician / Drummer / Performer / Educator
mob.: + 39 347 062 67 22
Web: http://gianpaologallian.blogspot.com

Covoxer
New Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:54 am
Contact:

Re: Cubasis 2 Meters

Post by Covoxer » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:07 pm

Hi Gianpaolo

from your screens it looks that you have the same scale on the channel meter as on the master meter. Which is different from what I've got the last time. So I have checked again, and got the same result as you! I'm not sure what happened when I metered it the last time, but the only explanation I can come up with, is that I must have accidentally enable sends on the tested channel and hadn't noticed it.
So yes, your method is absolutely correct, and you got the right result. Now I can confirm that the scale on the channel meter is the same as on the master meter that I have published before.

As to my wishes, I can live with current peak meters, so I would vote for improvements in other areas instead. I don't really need precise peak levels until I get to the mastering stage, at which point I can easily get them from the brick wall. One thing I would like to improve in meters area is to add some means to check the RMS level of at least the master output. Currently Cubasis has no RMS meters or RMS indication in any of the plugins. So yes, this is something I'd like to have. But I would prefer much more a spectrum analyser in the EQ, bus tracks, better and more dynamics effects (sidechain compressor, multiband compressor), variable tempo support, true snapless editing, maybe a proper de-esser plugin, etc. Anything that's easier to implement for the developers. ;)

Thanks
John

Post Reply

Return to “Cubasis | Cubasis 2”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests