CMC AI - let's discuss

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JMCecil
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CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

I've been critical of the CMCs as being just short of the functions needed so I can move the keyboard and mouse out of my way ... So, lets assume I'm an idiot, and that I am wrong! I know I can be an idiot and still be right, and that it is also possible that I am neither an idiot nor am I wrong ... but lets go with the idiot + wrong bit.

First up the CMC AI.

My first take on the AI (the only CMC I don't own), was that they have this conversation in the sales videos
"the idea of the AI is to eliminate using the mouse ..." followed by "just use the mouse to point at the control you want to adjust". That seems contradictory to me.

To me, by the time I mouse over a control I might as well just use the scroll wheel to adjust the param. I know you can use the AI as a jog wheel, which might offer some advantage. But, that seems awful slim pickins for the desk space.

Tell me why I'm an idiot (in context of the AI please).
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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JMCecil
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

hmm ... no takers?

Let me see if I can explain what I am after. For example;

At first I thought the PD was a waste for me. I don't really care about drum pads. I can see how it would be useful to some people for GAO or other drum type work. But for me, I didn't need that. But after I figured out how to quickly move between the Pad presets and that Preset 16 was Function Buttons ... I have changed my mind. I have it in Function mode 99% of the time and I love it. It is my Quantize Machine.

So, is there some way to use the AI that is not obvious at first? To me the AI part is a fail ... But is there more there?
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

G-string
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by G-string »

come on then i'll keep you amused :)

Your right , I can 't get my head round the function of the Ai controller ,even thou I don't own one myself I have the Ci2+ which has the Ai on the interface and all thou it's no use for a fully fledged studio it does have it's uses with a laptop so you don't have to pratt about with the pad on the laptop .
I do think it is a waste of time in a studio environment because if you want that function just buy a mouse with a dual wheel ( click to free spin ) and it's a lot quicker .
I7 3770k - win7 64 bit - C7.5.20 - WL8e - Halion 5 - Padshop pro - Cmc - Midex 8 - Uad - Rme FF/ADi8pro - Automap 4.7.3 b

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JMCecil
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

G-string wrote:come on then i'll keep you amused :)

Your right , I can 't get my head round the function of the Ai controller ,even thou I don't own one myself I have the Ci2+ which has the Ai on the interface and all thou it's no use for a fully fledged studio it does have it's uses with a laptop so you don't have to pratt about with the pad on the laptop .
I do think it is a waste of time in a studio environment because if you want that function just buy a mouse with a dual wheel ( click to free spin ) and it's a lot quicker .
Ah, with a laptop/pad I can see it being much more viable.

For some reason when I saw the AI video and they did the part about "the idea is to eliminate the mouse ... use the mouse to" I had visions of those infomercials where people can't make pancakes without destroying their kitchen.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

G-string
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by G-string »

Yes I remember seeing that claim and thought it would be a bit hard to implement ,Wtf would you use to point the controller towards the control ?????
I7 3770k - win7 64 bit - C7.5.20 - WL8e - Halion 5 - Padshop pro - Cmc - Midex 8 - Uad - Rme FF/ADi8pro - Automap 4.7.3 b

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Home Studio 87
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by Home Studio 87 »

it would be cool if AI knob just work like the mousewheel on everything ! like my Griffin Powermate do !
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JMCecil
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

Home Studio 87 wrote:it would be cool if AI knob just work like the mousewheel on everything ! like my Griffin Powermate do !
even then ..what's the point if you have to use the mouse to point at the thing you are going to control ... it's like having a two handed mouse.

Again, this is my viewpoint. I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something. The laptop trackpad situation is indeed a situation that makes the AI more usable.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by David L »

Maybe if you could use it to intelligently (AI) cycle through what Controls to operate, select one, and then Control it? Don't have the AI knob on anything myself..

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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

David L wrote:Maybe if you could use it to intelligently (AI) cycle through what Controls to operate, select one, and then Control it? Don't have the AI knob on anything myself..
Thinking that through ... I don't know if it would be usable or not but;

Maybe controls for previous/next plugin on the selected track +
Controls for previous/next control on the selected plugin

That combination might be faster/easier.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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Freddie H
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by Freddie H »

Hi!

I don't know why you try to "burn" the AI controller especially when you don´t have own first hand experience with it.
I can tell you I have all CMC controllers and CMC AI is really nice addition to the all CMC controllers.
Every one that I know that actually have it or have used it once, like it a lot. ;)

You can do a lot with it and also use and control the "Control room" and other MIXER functionally too.
"Lock" button is a nice feature. No learning is needed just a "smart" intelligent controller that map to anything you point at with the mouse. Also use in Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6 Mediabay, you brows in Mediabay "with ease"- any kind of functionally.


Take a look in this demonstration video. This video demonstrate the use in Cubase 6. In the new Cubase 7 and after the firmware update you can do even more functionality with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFhgUbiYHw



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Freddie
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JMCecil
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by JMCecil »

Freddie H wrote:Hi!
I don't know why you try to "burn" the AI controller especially when you don´t have own first hand experience with it.
Because, I burned all of the controllers ... but have found functionality that somewhat resolves the general limits of the units, with the exception of the one I don't own (but have used) ... I admit that up front. So, I'm asking "what did I miss"?

I'm making an effort to see if I actually want to keep my CMCs and giving them a real workout trying NOT to use the keyboard and mouse. I could pick up an Ai for $50, but am not sure it's worth the desk space. By the way I'm not just burning on the AI, I want to do this with all of them. For example, the QC is also barely staying ... I don't use the Borgz EQs ... and the places I would want to use the QC are just a hassle to deal with, and I want a fine control lock. I'm trying to get a handle on a good MIDI setup for it though. The better I get with that mode, the more I like it.

I'm getting to like the PD a lot (which is funny because it is the one I thought was even more ridiculous than the AI) and the CH and TP are great. But, since I was wrong on the PD, I thought I could be wrong on the AI as well.
I can tell you I have all CMC controllers and CMC AI is really nice addition to the all CMC controllers.
Every one that I know that actually have it or have used it once, like it a lot. ;)
That doesn't tell me WHY you like them.

I know 3 people with one, two sent them back ... one has it sitting in his closet like most of my other CMCs were until I decided to give them another shot. Just because I don't OWN one, doesn't mean I haven't tried one.
You can do a lot with it and also use and control the "Control room" and other MIXER functionally too.
I played with this and it is really limited without the mouse, and with the mouse .. I'm already there ... scroll wheel done.
"Lock" button is a nice feature.
I tried this, but it just seemed silly ... Again, mouse is already there.
No learning is needed just a "smart" intelligent controller that map to anything you point at with the mouse.
Mouse already there, no learning required ... Seriously, the idea that you would point at something with the mouse and then use something else to do the parameter tweak borders on the absurd.
Also use in Cubase 7 or Nuendo 6 Mediabay, you brows in Mediabay "with ease"- any kind of functionally.
This is more like it. However, in this case the PD seems to offer identical operation. Yes/No? Just curious, maybe I missed something.
Take a look in this demonstration video. This video demonstrate the use in Cubase 6. In the new Cubase 7 and after the firmware update you can do even more functionality with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhFhgUbiYHw
I've watched this and numerous other videos as well as test drove the unit. Again, I'm wondering if there are functions I hadn't thought of, like for me using the PD as a Quantizer panel, or the QC as an adhoc MIDI controller .
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 9 | Cubase VST-32->9 | H5, GA4, HSO, Padshop Pro, Cubasis, iC Pro

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BriHar
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Re: CMC AI - let's discuss

Post by BriHar »

Hi JM,

I've been meaning to reply on this thread from some time now, but waited for an opportune moment when I could devote time to a more detailed post. I'm making time now, as it seems it will never happen otherwise.

Of all the CMC devices, the AI is probably the least useful in my setup. Having said that however, I must admit that I have it default to Volume mode, which in conjunction with the control room gives me instant access to adjust the monitor volumes should I notice them clipping, regardless of what I am doing or where the mouse is. This is very handy, but hardly a viable reason for buying one.
I have also programmed the four F buttons to open certain windows which otherwise have no standard default keycommand.

I personally don't like horizontal faders or adjusting virtual, rotary knobs with a mouse - neither by dragging nor with the wheel. I like twisting a physical knob but must admit that said adjustment is more often than not, quicker i.e. more efficient with the mouse alone. It depends a lot on workflow and foresight. If I tweak a parameter on the spur of the moment, it will usually be faster with the mouse alone. If I tweak parameters as part of a preconceived workflow, my hand can (be trained to) automatically move to the AI knob as my mouse targets the control(s) in question. Using the AI knob then is "an act of will", one has to want to incorporate it into ones method - it is not intuitive in the same sense as tweaking with mouse alone or using a dedicated controller would be.

The lock control can be helpful at times when you want to dedicate it to a specific control, and also when adjusting multiple parameters simultaneously.

The jog function I prefer to leave to my ShuttleXpress, I find the AI knob generally too course (crude).

The browse function does not get used much here and value selection and deselection in the browser is easier with the mouse. The open browser by clicking the knob and the reset and close functions via the lock button are handy in this respect, though insofar as the browser is used - I don't tend to change track presets much. VST(i) plugin presets I also prefer to use the PD browse controls over the AI as it's simpler.

My primary critque with regard to the AI is that there are a number of controls which don't respond with the device - particularly in the control room (i'd very likely use the AI function more if this were remedied).
Secondly, the wasted space at the top of the unit literally begs the question "Why?". Surely a second row of function buttons, if nothing else, could have been placed across the top rather than simply leaving it blank.
A finger-mouse (joy pad as found on many laptop keyboards) or pad beside the AI knob might have been an interesting idea.

To recap, the AI will not do anything that can't be done (often faster and more efficiently) by some other means, but rather offers an alternate method of control that may appeal to some, but will not be 'right' for everyone. You have to want to use it, and it will require a specific effort to work it into your workflow.
For someone on a tighter budget, or wanting to minimize desk real-estate there would be no real advantage to having the AI and I wouldn't recommend getting one.

So, you're not an idiot, an idiot would be someone who bought an AI while already having a CC121 or one of the CI interfaces which already feature an AI.
I suppose that I have a kind of advantage in some respects, having had a 2 year hiatus from mixing while designing and building my new studio, I am now able to embrace Cubase 7 without any qualms about interupting ongoing projects. Although a custom Cubase/Nuendo keyboard remains central to my setup, I'm also in a position to reassess former, and experiment with new workflows and techniques. This is primarily why I bought the full compliment of CMC controllers. who knows, perhaps I'm the idiot?

Looking forward to your future discussions of the other CMC controllers.
;)
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