Final Cut OMF

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Biss
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Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

I am trying to import an OMF file generated by Final Cut. Everything seems to work fine but the volume automation. They are not 100% accurate. If I open the same OMF with Audition the volume envelope on the clips are perfect.
It has probably something to to with the fact that Nuendo converts the clip volumes into fader volume automation.
Does anybody knows if there is a solution to this?
I don't want to fix all the automation by hand, it would take ages.
Thank you.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by MattiasNYC »

I have no real experience with your problem because I always redo automation. But have you considered looking at what the offset is? If the offset is consistent perhaps you can simply nudge back all automation into place?
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by ltf3 »

HI

We do a lot of FCP OMF to Nuendo ... but I'm sorry to say ... we usually pay no attention to the editors FCP levels. We always have a track with the FCP mix down for reference and usually the translated FCP levels are in the ball park. ( I usually strip out all the existing levels right off the bat and clean up all the tracks etc)

Are the FCP 100% accurate? I couldn't say ... but I doubt they would be.

Sorry I can't give you a solution. There might not be one.

Lee
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

Lydiot wrote:I have no real experience with your problem because I always redo automation. But have you considered looking at what the offset is? If the offset is consistent perhaps you can simply nudge back all automation into place?
Unfortunately, this is not the case.
ltf3 wrote: We do a lot of FCP OMF to Nuendo ... but I'm sorry to say ... we usually pay no attention to the editors FCP levels. We always have a track with the FCP mix down for reference and usually the translated FCP levels are in the ball park. ( I usually strip out all the existing levels right off the bat and clean up all the tracks etc)
Lee
I understand your point. In fact very often the volumes done by the editors are a mess anyway. But still, I really feel that they should be imported correctly into Nuendo, since a program like Audition can do it with no problem.
In this particular case I need the volumes done by the FCP editor and it is not pleasant to work with the director next to you and have to fix all the errors.

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by bill »

Yes, it's definitely an issue & from what I hear, this will be improved in a future update of Nuendo. We'll see.
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Biss
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

bill wrote:Yes, it's definitely an issue & from what I hear, this will be improved in a future update of Nuendo. We'll see.
Can someone from Steinberg comment on this?
OMF is very important in order to interact with other studios. It has to be perfect. OMF is going to be what allows me to stay with Nuendo. It is painful to see a much cheaper program like Adobe AU to import an OMF perfectly.

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Fredo
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Fredo »

Can you discribe the problem in detail?
Not accurate is rather vague ...
What's the difference between importing the OMF into Audition vs. importing the OMF in Nuendo?

Fredo

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

Thanks Fredo for the reply.
Between the fade out and the fade in of two clips in sequence on the same track the volume should be at -infinite instead it is at 0. It wouldn't be a problem, but after the fade out at the end of the clip, the volume comes up again right before the end of the clip with a very short fade in (like a fraction of a second), causing a unwanted noise.
In AU this doesn't happen. I think it is due to the fact that the OMF is from Final Cut and the volume envelopes are all clip volumes and not fader volumes. AU treats them as clip volumes and replicates them exactly while Nuendo converts them into fader volumes. Maybe there is a problem during this conversion.
Of course the Nuendo way (fader volumes) is much better, but it needs to be accurate.
I hope I have explained it right.

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Fredo
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Fredo »

I think I see what you mean.
FInal Cut OMF.jpg
(64.75 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Never noticed that before, for the same reason others mentioned.
We never start with automation provided from the video editors.
It's faster and better to redo the whole thing.

I will file this as a bug, can not hurt.


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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

Fredo wrote:I think I see what you mean.
FInal Cut OMF.jpg
Never noticed that before, for the same reason others mentioned.
We never start with automation provided from the video editors.
It's faster and better to redo the whole thing.

I will file this as a bug, can not hurt.


Fredo
Thank you

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by bill »

Fredo wrote: We never start with automation provided from the video editors.
Fredo
I have to say I'm a bit surprised to hear a lot of people say this. We work with many editors who can be a bit finicky about their work. They often hear the finished product & say, "why did you change the automation I provided you?"
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Fredo
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Fredo »

If you can't change it, then what's the point of sending the project to Audio Post?
Of course you need to respect their "guide" or reference mix .... You can't do something completely different.
The point is that re-writing, changing, modifying existing automation is more hassle than writing new automation.
As soon as you instert a plugin, or apply EQ, levels *need* to change in order to "match" the reference audio.
So either you don't touch their mix, or you redo the mix.


Fredo

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Chewy Papadopoulos
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos »

What Fredo said.

Step 1 for me has always been strip automation. The sound on the ref QT is generally plenty to get a sense of what the editor had in mind, and there are always (in my experience to date, anyway) material issues that make starting from scratch essential. Editors typically are not hearing noise floor or ambience accurately enough to match with xfades or fader moves. Nine times out of ten (it's great when it DOESN'T happen... but fellas... how many times has it happened to you?) music edits are either annoyingly out-of-time or, well, just horribly done?

Remembering when the PPM/lead editor on our series started this whole circular dialog about how much we needed Automatic Duck because it saved pan info, and did all of these other automation-saving things... I finally got tired of arguing why I didn't have any use for it, accepted their "Ducked" OMFs (which did everything they promised) and immediately stripped everything out anyway. And so went two seasons, until he was replaced and the "need" for automation from editorial was forgotten.

At the end of the day, the sound department's job is to service the director's vision, not the editor's. And if the editor is, in fact, the director, they'll be on top of the mix, so no problem.

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Tumppi Järnefelt
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt »

Absolutely always start automation from scratch.
Most editors don't even have proper monitors or acoustically treated room anyway so even they might be "surprised" how their mix sounds on proper studio.

And most of times we use off/alt takes and ADR etc. while doing our work. Stuff that editors don't have. There is so much going on in the audio post most editors don't have a clue anyway.

So it is impossible to make final decisions at picture edit. If some editor is sensitive about this it is his/hers problem.

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Biss »

I may agree with some of the comments, but all this has nothing to do with the fact that Nuendo should import OMF properly.

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt »

Nobody's arguing here that Nuendo shouldn't import OMF's correctly. Fredo said he'll report the bug.

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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by drew_cady »

I am surprised to still see this OMF import bug in Nuendo 5.5.5.
I have used Cubase and Nuendo for decades. I love the work flow and the speed in which I can edit and mix.

I can agree a little that you should start mixing from scratch but when you are working on indie budgets with feature lengths, spending days to just get it back to where the editor had it is not appealing. And as mentioned before these directors and editors now how they mixed it and calling them when they are half way around the world is sometimes not practical.

Thank you for the Adobe Audition tip, I was able to import the OMF perfectly. Nice work Adobe even at a 5th the price.

So please Steinberg, fix the import bug so I can stay in my DAW of choice, Nuendo.
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Re: Final Cut OMF

Post by Dolfo »

Same problem here. With OMF from FCP we find the automation is written only for the clips, but between them, you can find a sudden jump to 0db causing clips and noises.

Usually we redo all the automation, but if it's a Nuendo bug, this should be fixed.
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