POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software
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Are you getting occasional "hang on exit" problems with C6?

64bit - Yes
191
34%
64bit - Never
110
20%
32bit - Yes
107
19%
32bit - Never
150
27%
 
Total votes: 558

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Split
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Split » Wed May 16, 2012 4:28 pm

I'd just like to add that my system and cubase shuts down fine :)
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by csd » Wed May 16, 2012 6:40 pm

tb2496 wrote:
csd wrote: And as the previous poster just stated, and as I have as well, a project with no plugins will also hang on exit - that points directly to a design flaw in Cubase's exit procedure.

I've tried it with the Cubase "default" project with nothing in it and had it hang. It isn't a plugin or 32-bit bridge issue. It's just poor programming in Cubase itself that causes it to wait "forever" instead of closing the connection itself.
yeah, but remember...50% of users have zero issues. so something on your system is making it hang.

also I would guess that for Steinberg this is a non issue, since its 3rd party that makes it hang.
[/quote]

No. That is an incorrect assumption when every other vst/ASIO DAW on the same system exits gracefully every time and always has on other systems as well. Any decent software developer knows bugs in complex code are not always 100% repeatable.

One of the reasons Steinberg never fixes anything is responses like yours. If enough hobby users say it isn't a problem the company figures they'll make enough in upgrades and sales to users that never notice bugs they can ignore the pro users that do.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by tb2496 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:17 pm

I'm actually on your side but trying to point out the reasoning Steinberg might be taking, since they're not saying much.

maybe the're all on vacation right now? lol

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Norbury Brook » Wed May 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Well it's a weird one then as I've been working flat out for the past 3 months and as I said this ONLY happens for me witH the x64 BFD 2 in a project.

I've been working on lots and lots of different types of music and putting my DAW through all kinds of different tasks and this only occurs for me with BFD.


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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by funkman » Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 pm

is there anyone who is having the hang on exit,NOT using ANY cracked plugs?
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Norbury Brook » Wed May 16, 2012 9:01 pm

BFD 2 is the culprit on my system and it's all legit.


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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by MrMeshuggah » Wed May 16, 2012 9:16 pm

funkman wrote:is there anyone who is having the hang on exit,NOT using ANY cracked plugs?
I'm using a legit version of Eastwest/Quantum Leap - Symphonic Orchestra Platinum and it's causing my Cubase to hang on 95% of exits.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Guest » Wed May 16, 2012 10:21 pm

Is Steinberg EVER going to fix this annoying problem?????? It hangs on exit even if I open Cubase and do not load any projects in. After nearly 1 year of this crap enough is enough. FIX THE PROBLEM STEINBERG!!!!!!!!!

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by funkman » Wed May 16, 2012 11:00 pm

i was using cubase 6(one of the updates)and disnt have the hang issue for at least a year,just recently started to happen.
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Arjan P » Wed May 16, 2012 11:25 pm

funkman wrote:is there anyone who is having the hang on exit,NOT using ANY cracked plugs?
Yes, as some have said, it could even happen when no VSTs are loaded at all. In my case it's the Midisport 8x8 interface, that, when used in a project, makes Cubase hang.
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Jeff Hayat » Thu May 17, 2012 12:57 am

I keep having to pop in here every few pages or so and repeat myself, but that's cool. :)
tb2496 wrote:...also I would guess that for Steinberg this is a non issue, since its 3rd party that makes it hang.
That is incorrect. It is NOT anything 3rd party that makes Cubase hang. Let's all please stop saying that it is. It isn't.

Here is living proof that the shutdown issue in NOT plug-in related, Virtual Inst/VST related, project related, peripheral related, external synth related, video engine related, USB/FW issue related, jBridge related, VSTBridge related, 32bit vs. 64bit related, and on and on and on.

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CubaseHang.mp4

Furthermore.... (repost alert!)

I have found something interesting. There are stretches where I will launch and close Cubase several times a day. With all this closing and opening, the sample editor raster gets screwed up. So to alleviate this, I frequently delete my defaults.xml file, and replace it with a back up. Well, I have never had a hang with a fresh defaults.xml file - and furthermore, Cubase seems to be fine for a certain amount of launches/closes after replacing the xml. I dont have a number, but it is more than just a few. After a certain amount of launches/closes, then it will all of a sudden hang. Then the next three or four times it wont, then it will. And back and forth. Until, I delete the defaults.xml file, and replace it with the back up. Then, no hangs for many launches/closes.

Maybe some of you want to try this. Start from scratch: delete your defaults.xml file, launch Cubase, let a new defaults.xml get created, and set everything to the way you like it (pref and key command files, 'always on top', etc). Close Cubase (all of the changes you just made need to be written to the defaults.xml file - that happens when you close Cubase) and immediately make a copy of the newly created defaults.xml file. Place that copy in another folder, and leave it there as a b/u - don't move nor delete it. When you experience a hang, let Cubase close completely (gone from the TM), and then delete the defaults.xml file that Cubase uses (from the app data folder), and c&p the b/u. And see if you experience any hangs over the next several launches/closes. If it takes a while to experience a hang, this is a step in the right direction. If that's the case, when you finally do experience a hang - repeat the process: delete the defaults.xml file from the app data folder, and c&p the b/u again. And see if you experience any hangs over the next several launches/closes.

I'd be interested to see anyone's findings.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by troutstudio » Thu May 17, 2012 1:59 am

TabSel wrote:just for the record:
it must be something other. audio drivers or midi drivers... well, I own several DAWs and audio apps, none of them have a problem quitting.

Cubases device plugins (automap, steinbergs own SKI remote, anything)... well, even after deleting/uninstalling these device plugin dlls, cubase crashes on exit...
I agree. I spent hours on this on my system and even with NO plugins in the CubasePlugins folder, it crashes. Also note my wording here - it's not really a hang - it's a crash. And note the response from Cubase support "If you initialize your prefs, how many times can you use it before it hangs?" So they know exactly what the scenario is, but are for some reason unable to apply a fix that will not wreck the functionality of Cubase for half the users.

We should consider another thread : "If Cubase crashes on quit for you, are you using an external MIDI interface" Actually, I could run a Limesurvey on this and ask some pertinent questions e.g. what system, what version, plug-ins, midi - and since the responses would be anonymous, we could get some good data. What do you think?

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by csd » Thu May 17, 2012 3:17 am

Jeff Hayat wrote: Maybe some of you want to try this. Start from scratch: delete your defaults.xml file, launch Cubase, let a new defaults.xml get created, and set everything to the way you like it (pref and key command files, 'always on top', etc).
Interesting idea and perhaps one factor, but I had Cubase hang only a day or two after a completely fresh install and only minimal preference customizations.

But since it does in fact seem to have an effect, my guess is after some time, Cubase's preferences start to impact how/when it closes certain processes - possibly midi device drivers (since that seems to be a common thread here as well).

If I were investigating Cubase's code, I would look at the sequence of modules and processes Cubase is exiting, writing off to disk, and drivers it closes at exit, and whether these are sequential, or allowed to overlap. i.e. - if you are letting some device driver exit routine run until you get a call back from the driver, but allowing another process to exit before it completes, the app will hang indefinitely, and could make it hard for the OS to kill the task by other means.

I now close the session (ctrl-w), wait until it closes down all tracks, then wait 3-4 seconds and hit the "x" to close Cubase, and it rarely hangs. Ctrl-q causes frequent hangs. That seems to imply Cubase isn't elegantly handling the shutdown sequence, and since closing a program is partly a matter of timing and waiting for one process to finish before moving on, that seems like a logical conclusion. If you have a sample-VI loaded (BFD was mentioned here a few times), that may be affecting whether Cubase gets luck and ends up on the right path to shutdown correctly.
If it were programmed correctly, it would have only one option, and it would do it correctly regardless of what VIs are loaded, or what USB or ASIO interfaces/devices are connected.

ProTools doesn't have this issue on my system, most likely because it doesn't shutdown part of the program before it has completed all required tasks and closed all open drivers (and if there is no response from slower drivers, it probably just cuts the connection - seems simple enough).

This is where I have to chime in and issue a rather emphatic and irritated challenge to Steinberg:

Issues like this are why the pros I work with don't consider Cubase and Nuendo professional DAWs. Cubase (and Nuendo) have some great features, but those features don't make up for instability issues, like not being able to shutdown without rebooting the system, or trashing preferences every couple of days. I never have had to trash ProTools' preferences, and have scored many projects for the past 18 months in PT8, 9 and now 10 without a single crash, lost project, trashed/corrupted preferences, or hang on exit. ProTools lacks Cubase/VST's lower cpu usage, lower latency capabilities and better midi editing, but at the end of the day, one has to evalutate what saves more time (and hence, is more profitable) - a few more features, or 100% stability. The latter wins everytime in a pro environment.

After several years with Steinberg, I gave up and moved to ProTools, fed up with lingering bugs and lack of interest from Steinberg in fixing them. I'm back giving it a go only because I think I can gain some time with the better midi editing in Cubase 6.5 over ProTools, but with DP8 just around the corner, Cubase may not have a place in my studio for long.

We aren't here to win your interest, you are here to win our ours.

The ball is in your court Steinberg. Win us over with better stability and consistency, or we'll find move our work and credit lists to someone who will.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Arjan P » Thu May 17, 2012 11:42 am

Jeff Hayat wrote:Here is living proof that the shutdown issue in NOT plug-in related, Virtual Inst/VST related, project related, peripheral related, external synth related, video engine related, USB/FW issue related, jBridge related, VSTBridge related, 32bit vs. 64bit related, and on and on and on.
http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/CubaseHang.mp4
That movie shows it MAY not be plugins, VSTi/VST, project, ext synth, video engine, jBridge, 32bit or 64bit related. It however doesn't prove in any way that it ISN'T peripheral or USB/FW related, since Cubase does load the previous peripheral audio/ MIDI driver and therefor may have a problem shutting it down again. Check a page back or page 9 and see what Chris Beuermann has to say about it.
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Arjan P » Thu May 17, 2012 11:44 am

troutstudio wrote:I agree. I spent hours on this on my system and even with NO plugins in the CubasePlugins folder, it crashes. Also note my wording here - it's not really a hang - it's a crash.
If you're having a crash this is not the topic for you. There is a distinct difference between hanging on exit and crashing.
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by troutstudio » Thu May 17, 2012 1:08 pm

Arjan P wrote:
troutstudio wrote:I agree. I spent hours on this on my system and even with NO plugins in the CubasePlugins folder, it crashes. Also note my wording here - it's not really a hang - it's a crash.
If you're having a crash this is not the topic for you. There is a distinct difference between hanging on exit and crashing.
I'm in the right thread. It's semantics. Check your logs.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by jose7822 » Thu May 17, 2012 2:36 pm

Split wrote:I'd just like to add that my system and cubase shuts down fine :)

Haha, mine too (after I removed the AlphaTrack from my setup). Now Cubase shuts down pretty fast :-)
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by peregrine » Fri May 18, 2012 6:29 am

Chris' post started me thinking about everything I use that is memory resident, and specifically applications that are persistent. I use VE Pro, midiox, and several other applications like this that are designed to remain running in the system. This morning I opened an existing Cubase project, and worked in it for about an hour. Before I closed it, I disconnected all of the VE Pro sessions, the vst instruments on a slave pc, and shut down midiox. The project then closed with no problem. I did a Cubase exit, and it shut down in less than 15 sec. I've repeated this four times today with the same result. Also, I've followed program exit with Windows shut downs and restarts and have not had a blue screen. This could easily explain why there are seemingly so many causes for hanging on exit. It would absolutely explain the basis for a system service exception BSOD.

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Split » Fri May 18, 2012 9:38 am

jose7822 wrote:
Split wrote:I'd just like to add that my system and cubase shuts down fine :)

Haha, mine too (after I removed the AlphaTrack from my setup). Now Cubase shuts down pretty fast :-)

That's odd, I have an Alpha Track and Cubase shuts down fine, in fact I just finished mixing a 10 track punk album last night and over the 5 days of mixing I didn't experience one anomaly. Very stable and a delight to work with :D

I must add, pure recorded audio, no midi, VSTi's...
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by Norbury Brook » Fri May 18, 2012 9:47 am

I did a month of mixing an album recently, working everyday and didn't have one issue,again all audio tracks bounced out of logic.
As I've already stated a number of times for me this issue ONLY happens when I have BFD2 in a project.



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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by tb2496 » Fri May 18, 2012 1:21 pm

Norbury Brook wrote:I did a month of mixing an album recently, working everyday and didn't have one issue,again all audio tracks bounced out of logic.
As I've already stated a number of times for me this issue ONLY happens when I have BFD2 in a project.



MC
have you tried contacting BFD2's support?

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by jose7822 » Fri May 18, 2012 3:18 pm

Split wrote:
jose7822 wrote:
Split wrote:I'd just like to add that my system and cubase shuts down fine :)

Haha, mine too (after I removed the AlphaTrack from my setup). Now Cubase shuts down pretty fast :-)

That's odd, I have an Alpha Track and Cubase shuts down fine, in fact I just finished mixing a 10 track punk album last night and over the 5 days of mixing I didn't experience one anomaly. Very stable and a delight to work with :D

I must add, pure recorded audio, no midi, VSTi's...
For me, the Alpha Track was definitely the culprit. Haven't had any issues with Cubase every since I removed it from my setup. I was using the AT's 64 bit drivers in Cubase 6.0.5 64 bit at that point in time. I just finished working on a short movie project this week, so I do use a lot of VSTi's. Not sure if any of this makes any difference, but now Cubase is rock solid and I love it!
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by HowlingUlf » Fri May 18, 2012 5:49 pm

jose7822 wrote:
Split wrote:
jose7822 wrote:Haha, mine too (after I removed the AlphaTrack from my setup). Now Cubase shuts down pretty fast :-)

That's odd, I have an Alpha Track and Cubase shuts down fine, in fact I just finished mixing a 10 track punk album last night and over the 5 days of mixing I didn't experience one anomaly. Very stable and a delight to work with :D

I must add, pure recorded audio, no midi, VSTi's...
For me, the Alpha Track was definitely the culprit. Haven't had any issues with Cubase every since I removed it from my setup. I was using the AT's 64 bit drivers in Cubase 6.0.5 64 bit at that point in time. I just finished working on a short movie project this week, so I do use a lot of VSTi's. Not sure if any of this makes any difference, but now Cubase is rock solid and I love it!
Niiice! 8-)

There should be some place to add stuff to a list where all possible error causes can be compiled, no matter what you might think of how silly they may seem. Then when disaster strikes you have at least that list to check error against? Who would dream of all the strange solutions people have dragged in here, but if they work they work .. that's good enough?
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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by TabSel » Tue May 22, 2012 10:59 am

just to let you know:

I had Cubase crashing on exit, no matter of a project being loaded or not. Cubase allways crashed on exit.

Just this morning I noticed in the splash on Cubase launch that cubase initializes VST3 plugins. Never noticed this before. Cubase does not initialize VST2.x plugins on launch, but it does initzialize VST3 plugins on startup, whatever that means.

Now, I am an automap user and I have every plugin automapped, be it VST2.x or VST3.

After I noticed that cubase initializes VST3 plugins on launch, I unwrapped all VST3 plugins in automaps software setup, launched Cubase, exited Cubase, and Cubase did NOT crash on exit anymore!

I installed automap 4.4b1 some days ago. As mentioned in the beta release notes, plugins need to be rewrapped again, as it was the case with some other automap releases. I usually do so, but constantly forget to do so with VST3 plugins as well as with VST2.x plugins...

I rewrapped the VST3 plugins with the latest 4.4b1, launched cubase, exited cubase and Cubase did NOT crash on exit.

So, for now, Cubase is exiting fine, finally!

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Re: POLL: Is C6 hanging on exit for you?

Post by funkman » Tue May 22, 2012 11:27 am

how do i rewarap the plugins? do i go to "software setup" and the setup cubase6?
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