Poll: Case for single window layout

For users of legacy Steinberg Cubase software

Should Steinberg pursue a single window layout?

Yes
53
32%
No
114
68%
 
Total votes: 167

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by jose7822 » Thu May 31, 2012 3:58 pm

Haha, my bad Chase. I didn't remove the quote tags properly.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by gsHarmony » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:15 pm

I'd be happy if the editor windows were made floatable like the mixer, VST instruments, etc.

I don't think the interface needs a huge change, but being able to drag a window anywhere I want without extending the main window across all my monitors would be very useful. I run multiple apps at the same time, for which I need to see what is going on while Cubase plays back audio/midi. Stretching the main Cubase window covers up those apps, so I constantly have to change focus, which is a major annoyance. As a result, I frequently have to resize the Cubase window to see everything, which messes up my Cubase layout. Basically, I get a snowballing of annoyances. If I could just drag the desired windows to a different monitor, I could see everything I need at the same time.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Loop Breaker » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:23 pm

i use 4 monitors, with different resolutions...

all windows on top enable!

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by cubic13 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:30 am

The one and ONLY thing that I want is a STABLE maximized project window, without the clumsy workspaces kind of workaround. Having to use the project window unmaximized is a waste of display space, with two windows borders, etc.

Steiny reduced even more the display space available in the project window, since the 5.5 version, by enlarging (what for ?) the info line.

I purchased a 26"" monitor with my present system to have as much vertical display space as possible. And, sorry, I have neither the cash nor the place available for 2, 3 or 4 monitors...

So, I voted yes, as the present state of the windows management is still one of the weakest point of Cubase...
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Loop Breaker » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:41 am

i use Cubase over 2 screens one for Arrangment, one for Editor, and 2 for the mixer and plugins...
but when i open more things like Halion, Plogue, Reaktor... to fullscreen or just move the AmpSimulatorm, or a Synth to the oposit side of the screen changing to another Keyboard, Guitar, Mic... then i move the Cubase window arround, once the cycle or a marker is set i use a controller, and than it would be nice to make any Editor also "allways on top".


and many people have multiple monitors, you can see the whole mixer at once... or close to enough space (because Cubase foce you to work one window, and with the enter key... its no prob), and its no problem to get 3 monitors for @ 70 .- € = € 210.- if you realy want and most people I thing have allready 2...

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by onesnzeros » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:11 am

Heeeeeell NO...

PLEASE don't turn Cubase into another Ableton Live or Studio One.
I HATE that about those programs.
I use Ableton Live for a Live tool, but that is IT, and I sold Studio One because of the same reason - as a tracker, it feels like a toy. I hate being stuck in a single window layout. I want to be able to see the contents of more than1 MIDI file side by side if I need to... and move windows around to where I want them.
I'm sure there are a few things a person could do to 'maximize their workspace'...
Please no single window toy shenannigans :!:
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by James K » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:32 am

I will move to Bitwig if Cubase does not evolve their window management. It's quite ridiculous! I used to use 2x22in moniors with Cubase and it still wasn't great. Now I have one 27in and have experience using Logic , Sonar, Live 8 and in comparison Cubase is a pain regarding the window management .
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by stevont » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Maybe you'd like something that works on your iphone (?)

Cubase's power, elegance and intuitive workflow more than make up for any hiccups with window management.
Learn to manage your windows with custom key strokes. Or use the inspector.

Music creation and studio management isn't a video game.

I'm a guy who spent the majority of my career wiring (and managing) patch-bays labeling my (real) mixer with masking tape and having to actually reach in different directions to turn knobs on the gear I had mounted in various locations around my studio.

Window management…. cry me a river.
Proudly using Cubase (mac) since 1989.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by ukdino » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:13 pm

My only gripe is windows don't snap to each other...
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by fizbin » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:41 pm

Jeff Hayat wrote:
fizbin wrote:Call it what you will, but the current MDI floating window nightmare needs to go away.

Every other DAW is better than Cubase in this one respect. Try running Cubase across two monitors with slightly different maximum resolutions. Further crap behavior.
What is the MDI floating window nightmare ?

And if you have problems b/c you are running Cubase across two monitors with different resolutions, that is not something that needs to be addressed, and there is nothing for SB to fix there.
Window behavior is much better in Reaper, Studio One, Reason, nearly everything else. It's not "Single Window Layout"...that's not the right term, you can split off windows as much as you want and maximize them (at least the main one in Reaper) and have them stick, even across multiple monitors with different resolutions, and still have floating plug-ins. It's not rocket science and it's not MDI. There's no window with other windows floating around in it because you can't maximize any single one without your entire layout going to hell, as in Cubase.

Honestly, Cubase feels more like the "Single Window Layout" to me because the main windows are all confined to the one parent window. With Reaper, Studio One, or Reason the editors and the mixer can be split off from the main window to their own monitor and don't swim around in some parent window that you can't maximize.
Last edited by fizbin on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Conman » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:43 pm

Cubase has at it's front end what the others haven't and is one major selling point in it's design. Simplicity.
It's really the back end that needs more streamlining but even there they give the user enough options to customise to quite a wide extent. Maybe an option is in order but then some would complain that there's too many options.

Does anyone really need stripes, fins and spoilers on a Rolls Royce? :mrgreen:

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by fizbin » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:46 pm

Conman wrote:Cubase has at it's front end what the others haven't and is one major selling point in it's design. Simplicity.
It's really the back end that needs more streamlining but even there they give the user enough options to customise to quite a wide extent. Maybe an option is in order but then some would complain that there's too many options.

Does anyone really need stripes, fins and spoilers on a Rolls Royce? :mrgreen:

"Sheilds up number two!"
Not entirely sure what you're saying, but I don't think anyone is arguing that Cubase isn't the best, that's why we're here. To not care is to remain silent and pretend it couldn't be better.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by James K » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:20 pm

With other DAW previously mentioned the window can still be separated and positioned in two monitors while still having a choice to work ( in my opinion more efficiently) in one window with a better window management hierarchy. I think that seems to be the main fear of those against a one window management system. Experience and familiarity with these one window DAWs is the key to understanding how they work. Everyone likes to work a little differently and at present C6 suits certain needs but I truly believe the efficiency of the one window system is here to stay...evolution is good peeps..that's why C6 doesnt look like or function like Cubasis. :)
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by fizbin » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:59 pm

I keep saying Cubase is the one window DAW compared to the others. Seems obvious to me.

Cubase is one clunky window where nothing can be maximized as opposed to windows that can separate from the main project view window cleanly and can be maximized on the monitor you want them on.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by James K » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:32 pm

stevont wrote:Maybe you'd like something that works on your iphone (?)

Cubase's power, elegance and intuitive workflow more than make up for any hiccups with window management.
Learn to manage your windows with custom key strokes. Or use the inspector.

Music creation and studio management isn't a video game.

I'm a guy who spent the majority of my career wiring (and managing) patch-bays labeling my (real) mixer with masking tape and having to actually reach in different directions to turn knobs on the gear I had mounted in various locations around my studio.

Window management…. cry me a river.

I hear what your saying Stevont as I also come from the world of patch bays ...hardware....analogue...tape etc....But I do like to evolve when the opportunity presents itself.

This is 2012 and a wonderful new creative world is available...and it does not intimidate me at all!
Jump in ....the waters warm bud!
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by C.LYDE » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:32 pm

James K wrote: ....But I do like to evolve when the opportunity presents itself.
As long as its 'evolving' in a direction we users find most useful... ;)
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by AndrewW » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:23 pm

Single window Layout - my vote is - NO

However I would support a request - where if you switch to a different application (on the MAC at least) all your additional windows except the arrange window, they disappear. In other words, I'd like to see all my open windows (mixer, Video player, etc) even if my front application is not Cubase. That would be handy.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by stevont » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:53 pm

James K wrote: I hear what your saying ...But I do like to evolve when the opportunity presents itself.

This is 2012 and a wonderful new creative world is available...and it does not intimidate me at all!
Jump in ....the waters warm bud!
Please…
Over a decade ago I was one of the first guys in New York to walk into a major recording studio with my laptop and a MOTU 828, record an ensemble for a major motion picture and walk out with my studio and backup Cds under my arm.
The little interns were snickering when I started … eyes glazed over and slack jawed when I left.
These were the days when, if you weren't running Protools on a g3 tower with multiple PCI slots, you weren't a man.
I saved the producer about 3k in studio expenses.

I know how to evolve.
And I learned how to manage my software.
I like the ability to highlight two audio parts on different tracks, hit command E and have my audio editor take the entire monitor. Hit command W and I'm back on my arrangement. Try that on Logic or LIVE.

Single window functionality is nothing new. It harkens back to hack programs running under windows in the early 1990s.
It's a huge step backward.
So if the water is warm where your standing maybe you should make sure you didn't wet yourself, bud.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by James K » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Ok Steve we've all got that your a dinosaur. yawn...
Good luck with that bud.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Audiocave » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:21 pm

So much misinformation.

Logic's sample editor certainly detaches and maximizes so despite what Steve claims, yes, you can do that in Logic and just about any other daw with a seperate audio editor window.

Gosh. People just kinda make up stuff to support whatever they're trying to support. Fact is, Cubase's window management is actually the limited one, compared to some of the others. The MDI paradigm is dated.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by James K » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:33 pm

Audiocave wrote:So much misinformation.

Logic's sample editor certainly detaches and maximizes so despite what Steve claims, yes, you can do that in Logic and just about any other daw with a seperate audio editor window.

Gosh. People just kinda make up stuff to support whatever they're trying to support. Fact is, Cubase's window management is actually the limited one, compared to some of the others. The MDI paradigm is dated.

Yes. Exactly a point I was about to address re: Logic/Sonar being able to separate the individual windows if required.

C6 is tops in many departments...window management is not one of them.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Audiocave » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:28 am

It's the same really basic point that many in this thread continue to miss, that just because things "can" dock doesn't mean you "have" to dock them, it's mostly optional. If you want 1000 windows floating all over creation (or across 2-3 monitors), detach them and put them wheverever you want.

It's a case of having an "option" to dock some things, which Cubase doesn't have, which makes it's window management more limited than the others. It's really odd (kinda like in politics) to see people actually arguing against their own self-interest. The Cubase inspector and Info Bar are (for example) docked panels that can be toggled visible. Why would a file explorer or something be any different?

Not sure how "optionally" (key word, optionally) docking an audio editor or midi editor at the bottom of arrange would spell the end of the universe and prohibIt anyone from still putting those same windows anywhere else whenever they choose.

It's all quite baffling, people arguing against "more flexibility"... and continually wrongly implying that most apps with "consolidated UI's" actually can't move those edit windows around.
Last edited by Audiocave on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by TS-12 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:39 am

If 'Single' window layout will work for 2 or 3 or more displays than it would make sense. Otherwise I vote no.
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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by Audiocave » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:43 am

TS-12 wrote:If 'Single' window layout will work for 2 or 3 or more displays than it would make sense. Otherwise I vote no.
Why wouldn't it? Again... for the zillionth time.... :mrgreen: ... you can put a detached floating window wherever you want... in any application that both floats and docks things, not just with DAWS, the paradigm is in use in just about every class of multimedia software. Your desktop is your desktop and anything that floats can go anywhere on the desktop. Simple concept really. Nothing that floats is ever trapped inside the main application window container borders like in Cubase.

Does Logic, REAPER, DP, S1 and similar lock anyone into a single monitor? Not that I'm aware of, so I'm curious where this irrational fear of being locked into a single monitor comes from exactly.

Consolidated UI's mean that if/when you choose to, you can more neatly arrange things on one monitor and make much better use of limited space, like on a laptop, or a single montior setup, not that you're forced to.

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Re: Poll: Case for single window layout

Post by C.LYDE » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:55 pm

Audiocave wrote: It's all quite baffling, people arguing against "more flexibility"... and continually wrongly implying that most apps with "consolidated UI's" actually can't move those edit windows around.
I agree that the detail is in the donkey... the manner in which Steinberg implement the window management scheme is key.

However using both Studio One and Live, their overall design and approach is definitely limited in comparison to Cubase. I complety understand that this is intentional, as their engineers have taken the view that less is more, whilst judging from the request lists from Cubase users -- more is MORE.. :lol:

Bottomline, these consolidated apps and by extension their UI, are for most of us not the way to go. The most obvious requirement is docking, however what code is moved around, changed, or thrown out to achieve this, should hopefully not leave a bitter taste...
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