Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by wwzeitler » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:40 pm

I've ended up creating a key command to 'maximize windows' so can return my windows to a sane state with just a couple key strokes (always faster than mouse clicks). But others have referred to "RTFM the manual" (yes, redundant) on how to manage Cubase windows... but... where? Workspaces maybe? Amidst all the polemics of the thread, I would love to see concrete suggestions on how to live with what we've got. My maximize-windows-key-command workaround works well enough, but better solutions are always better!
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Conman » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:46 pm

Winter Rat wrote:
Conman wrote: ..... What I mean is don't use the maximize button to resize the window. And I got the fix from here so I'm not the only one.
This is a very cute point of view. But let me remind you one thing: we've paid for every button in this app, for every comma in the manual, so each thing must be at its place and work properly. Now let's take a look what we've got with the every new version of the app: old bugs + handful new features -- old (good) features + new bugs. We're all "testing" the product, reporting about bugs and waiting for fixing for months (years). You know, I'd like to pay for the app in such a manner: 10% of amount in the counterfeit banknotes - if they find the notes, well, I'll "fix" it... in a couple of months (but not all the notes at once) and so on.. I believe it would be fair. ;) But we're good people and we bring them "good" money, and we help them to make Nuendo better, so I believe we deserve more respect to our needs.
So tell me, why can't we get the features we need??? The global trend of the software industry is the "user customization", let's take a FireFox or Chrome for example: there are the "core browser" and a lot of addons free or not, but you can decide to have or not to have. But Steinberg says: "we know better what is better for you!" Why?
Well, sure, Cubase is their child and they are free to do with it everything they want, paying no attention to the users. But lets play fair, I mean tell us that all our "feature requests" are useless and save our time and nerve. :roll:

This is an extreme point of view of someone who does not really grasp the nature of computer music.
Yes. We pay for buttons. Yes. Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes they don't work on some systems and sometimes they work on others at one and the same time.
Knowing what I do about computer systems I know that not everything will work at 100% even on a simple wrod-processor (sic). Now Cubase is about a billion (and I'm not exaggerating there) times more complex than any word processor and I will expect the odd thing to go wrong now and again.
Yes. This problem has been there for a long time. But it isn't a biggie and is not worth making this much fuss about.
(at least from this side of the cage bars anyway) :mrgreen: But I guess I'll now have to leave you all to your "big brother ripped me off!" world. Otherwise you'll all start telling me it's awfully serious. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Winter Rat » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:52 pm

Conman wrote: This is an extreme point of view of someone who does not really grasp the nature of computer music.
Yes. We pay for buttons. Yes. Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes they don't work on some systems and sometimes they work on others at one and the same time.
Knowing what I do about computer systems I know that not everything will work at 100% even on a simple wrod-processor (sic). Now Cubase is about a billion (and I'm not exaggerating there) times more complex than any word processor and I will expect the odd thing to go wrong now and again.
Yes. This problem has been there for a long time. But it isn't a biggie and is not worth making this much fuss about.
(at least from this side of the cage bars anyway) :mrgreen: But I guess I'll now have to leave you all to your "big brother ripped me off!" world. Otherwise you'll all start telling me it's awfully serious. :mrgreen:
Well so, you wanna say that Stein team can fix all the global bugs, can make Cubase working for 99,99% and cannot cope with such a lousy problem as the windows behaviour?! Ok. Let us believe you. But doing this way, I wanna have one more thing - the answer. Let them have a global topic on the forum: " we're going to do nothing about this problem." and give us a link to it, every time they think so. Do I want too much? No, not too much.
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Steve Helstrip » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:56 pm

This one keeps coming back...and back..and, well you get the idea. This 'issue' drove me to Mac, which I'm happy to say doesn't have such issues.
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by musicam » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:36 am

suntower wrote:My guess has always been that Cubase uses some sort of x-platform code 'library' so they can develop for Mac and Windows. So it's always a compromise---they -never- get the app to behave like a true Windows app.

---JC
This would be correct, however it would be nice to have it confirmed by a developer to put to bed this issue.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:43 am

I've been avoiding this thread ... since now that I've finally gotten things to work well, it scares me.

I never have to resize windows anymore.

The trick for me using two monitors was this.

1). Don't maximize your main project window ... simply draw it once to the limit of one monitor screen (or two or more if you prefer ... and all this will work the same with a single monitor screen).

2). Open your editors one by one and redraw them to any size you want within the main window.

They will always open up the same way as long as no other editor was drawn larger than the project window and later is opened or no other non-editor window was previously in the project window outside of the window drawn within the main screen and later is opened . If you have any, even ones you've forgotten about, when you open them it will cause your main project window to resize to permit access to them. Things might work well at first ... until you open an outlier window and then every thing goes amok.

3). Once you have found all the AOT windows that might have moved off your project screen as redrawn ... and pulled them to the left into the project window with the horizontal project screen bar dragged all the way to the left ... your project window will always stay exactly where you have placed it and every other window (as you desire) will open up inside of it.

4). Maybe Conman didn't make clear that the 2 seconds to redraw only needs to be done once?

5). I now place all my mixers within the second monitor to the left, completely off the monitor with the project window. I have the main mixer completely extended at the top of that window drawn to the top, left and right borders with input, output and group channels excluded ... and only one click to remove audio, midi or vsti channels as needed. I split the bottom of the screen with the other two mixers, one decicated only to my inputs and the other to my mixing busses and stereo out.

6). I place most of my VSTis to open on top of the second screen with the mixers.

7). I use alternate windows to create different templates for the main screen ... mainly one using the whole screen for tracks and another with the tracks halfway down the page from the top and the channel editor sitting at the bottom and the inserted VSTs to the right of it.

8). Clicking on any channel in the mixer gives access to a key command to open or close the channel editor and I have another to close all open VST and VSTi.

It's very efficient, I never have to resize and I'm finally happy.

Como
Last edited by Como Baila on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Stealth » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:13 am

Como Baila wrote:I've been avoiding this thread ... since now that I've finally gotten things to work well, it scares me.

I never have to resize windows anymore.

The trick for me using two monitors was this.

1). Don't maximize your main project window ... simply draw it once to the limit of one monitor screen.

2). Open your editors one by one and redraw them to any size you want within the main window. They will always open up the same way as long as no other editor is drawn larger than the project window or no other window is in the project window outside of a window drawn within the main screen. If you have any, even ones you've forgotten about, when you open them it will cause your main project window to resize to permit access to them. Things might work well at first ... until you open an outlier window and then every thing goes amok.

3). Once you have found all the AOT windows that might have moved off your project screen as redrawn ... and pulled them to the left into the project window with the horizontal project screen bar dragged all the way to the left ... your project window will always stay exactly where you have placed it and every other window (as you desire) will open up inside of it.

4). Maybe Conman didn't make clear that the 2 seconds to redraw only needs to be done once?

5). I now place all my mixers within the second monitor to the left, completely off the monitor with the project window. I have the main mixer completely extended at the top of that window drawn to the top, left and right borders with input, output and group channels excluded ... and only one click to remove audio, midi or vsti channels as needed. I split the bottom of the screen with the other two mixers, one decicated only to my inputs and the other to my mixing busses and stereo out.

6). I place most of my VSTis to open on top of the second screen with the mixers.

7). I use alternate windows to create different templates for the main screen ... mainly one using the whole screen for tracks and another with the tracks halfway down the page from the top and the channel editor sitting at the bottom and the inserted VSTs to the right of it.

8). Clicking on any channel in the mixer gives access to a key command to open or close the channel mixer and I have another to close all open VST and VSTi.

It's very efficient, I never have to resize and I'm finally happy.

Como
This needs to be a sticky!
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by musicam » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:40 am

I don't know that it's even possible to have the Cubase project window maximized on one monitor with child windows on the other for any program unless docking is used.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:46 am

musicam wrote:I don't know that it's even possible to have the Cubase project window maximized on one monitor with child windows on the other for any program unless docking is used.
I'll have to recheck later tonight when I'm up and running ... but I am pretty positive even when maxed within one screen, AOT features can still appear on a second monitor.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by musicam » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:49 am

Como Baila wrote:I'll have to recheck later tonight when I'm up and running ... but I am pretty positive even when maxed within one screen, AOT features can still appear on a second monitor.

Como
That's right, but the problem starts with certain windows that can't be AOT such as pool & mediabay.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:43 am

musicam wrote:
Como Baila wrote:I'll have to recheck later tonight when I'm up and running ... but I am pretty positive even when maxed within one screen, AOT features can still appear on a second monitor.

Como
That's right, but the problem starts with certain windows that can't be AOT such as pool & mediabay.
I'm afraid you've lost me on this. Non-AOT windows cannot be taken out of the main window whether it is maximized or not.

On the other hand, AOT windows can be taken out of the main window whether it is maximized or not.

Handling of non-AOT windows is a separate issue ... unless, as I note in my main post above, it was previously opened outside of your newly resized main window. But that can be corrected as I explained.

I just confirmed what I was already "pretty positive" about.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by musicam » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:51 am

Hi Como

There seems to be two related issues here, firstly the fact that to have any child or sub-windows or otherwise window alternative to the main project window, some criteria must be met, a) any windows other than the project window must be set to AOT in order for them to "float" above the main project window and b) in order to use multiple monitors, any windows other than the project window must be set to AOT, however not all windows can do this so therefore the "window" menu must be used.

Other issues such as what suntower pointed out ultimately need to be rectified in due course but which would come first is anyones' guess.

Maybe workspaces can help but as they are not implemented in all versions their effectiveness will be limited.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:00 am

musicam wrote:Hi Como

There seems to be two related issues here, firstly the fact that to have any child or sub-windows or otherwise window alternative to the main project window, some criteria must be met, a) any windows other than the project window must be set to AOT in order for them to "float" above the main project window and b) in order to use multiple monitors, any windows other than the project window must be set to AOT, however not all windows can do this so therefore the "window" menu must be used.

Other issues such as what suntower pointed out ultimately need to be rectified in due course but which would come first is anyones' guess.

Maybe workspaces can help but as they are not implemented in all versions their effectiveness will be limited.
Hi Musicam ...

Yes, but the issue was about having to resize windows ... including the main one. I am only saying that you simply don't have to ever resize again, if you once set up your windows as I describe. The fact that non-AOT windows cannot float from the main project window has nothing to do with the need to resize or not, provided they are properly placed within the drawn main project window within the boundaries of the screen.

You just open and close them as needed and they will always show up in the same place ... without affecting the sizing of any other windows.

I am not championing Steinberg's windows implementation ... I am just stating that the windows resizing issue can be addressed and JMCecil's observation of potential difficulties with multiple monitors and a docking system is echoing in my mind, now that I've finally worked out a satisfactory solution.

This solution is not dependent on use of workspaces ... although they add value for convenience of multiple setup, for which I appreciate them very much. If they are not available in all versions of Cubase, well that is true with many other features and the reason some elect to buy the full version while others do not see value or at the moment find the price too steep.

Como
Last edited by Como Baila on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by musicam » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:05 am

Como Baila wrote:The fact that non-AOT windows cannot float from the main project window has nothing to do with the need to resize or not, provided they are properly placed within the drawn main project window within the boundaries of the screen.

Como
That's not in dispute, as that was the advice given by the key moderator on this forum Chris Beuermann some time ago (can't find the thread), but the main issue always was that opening a sub-window causes the main project window to revert to a restored state, eg what size and position it was prior to being maximized, which is why AOT became the default option.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:19 am

Musicam ...

I've had my say. I'll only add this: if the maximize button doesn't work as in other windows programs or as some would wish ... don't use it.

What is the functional difference between having your main window drawn to the boundaries of the screen and maximizing the the screen? You get the same real estate.

I cannot think of any or any functional advantage to having your main screen drawn larger than the observable window or to permit windows ... AOT or not ... to reside out of sight and then require use of the horizontal scroll bar to access them.

I want my project window large enough so that when I open any other windows inside it ... AOT or not ... I can see the bottom bar with the scroll bar and zoom arrows for easy access to a part in the project timeline or zoom in and out using my mouse wheel place over the little markers in the lower right corner. As long as I can access that and the top menus, everything else can take its turn nicely inside.

Anyway, I don't really have any 'dog in this fight,' beyond providing a simple solution for any who don't want to fight having to resize their windows.

Peace to all!

Como 8-)
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Guest » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:24 am

Why do I get the feeling brains is back? ;)

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Stealth » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:46 am

musicam wrote:but the main issue always was that opening a sub-window causes the main project window to revert to a restored state, eg what size and position it was prior to being maximized
"maximized" thats your problem!
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:50 am

Stealth wrote:
musicam wrote:but the main issue always was that opening a sub-window causes the main project window to revert to a restored state, eg what size and position it was prior to being maximized
"maximized" thats your problem!
While this didn't completely pass over my head ... actually, if you set your windows up as I describe you can maximize all you want, since you will have always started with a window within the project window so nothing can get displaced.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:54 am

mashedmitten wrote:Why do I get the feeling brains is back? ;)
Because your perspicacious? ;)

... and just when I'd completely forgotten all about him.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by freejay » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:00 pm

I never have problems with the windows in Cubase. One should just never maximize a window in Cubase but only re-size it manually to the maximum possible size (or to the size needed) then everything is ok. Mixing that with the "Always on top" function of other windows should create an environment where you don't have to think about the windows anymore.

The fact that Cubase uses MDI child windows mixed with non modal "on top" windows is certainly not ideal but absolutely no big issue - at least for me.
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:33 pm

I can't believe I actually read through this whole thread, my brain hurts now, as I have read so many others like it.

Steinberg simply needs to change this behaviour. Its a PITA, and I cannot believe they don't see it this way if they are running any PCs in their environment.

Question: Is this also an issue in Nuendo?

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by GargoyleStudio » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:51 pm

Just thought I'd pitch in with a useful advantage of stretching rather than maximising... At least, on my system.

I stretch my window over two monitors, works great for me, never had any problems. And, the useful tip is that when I want to use Cubase and also look at my calendar or the web, I can double click the Cubase menu bar and this window 'expands' to fit only one monitor revealing the other apps in the other monitor. In fact, this is especially useful for running a song and displaying the lyrics in Word on the other screen. I can even go and edit them. And when I'm done, I double click again and Cubase is back at full 2monitor size.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Arjan P » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:41 pm

GargoyleStudio wrote:I stretch my window over two monitors, works great for me, never had any problems.
Same here, and stretching makes it possible for me to show my mixer's metering window. Like this: http://www.soundbyte.nl/sbscreen.jpg Not that window behaviour shouldn't be improved, but this is perfectly useable for me.

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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Bane » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:34 am

Como Baila wrote:I've been avoiding this thread ... since now that I've finally gotten things to work well, it scares me.

I never have to resize windows anymore.

The trick for me using two monitors was this.

1). Don't maximize your main project window ... simply draw it once to the limit of one monitor screen (or two or more if you prefer ... and all this will work the same with a single monitor screen).

2). Open your editors one by one and redraw them to any size you want within the main window.

They will always open up the same way as long as no other editor was drawn larger than the project window and later is opened or no other non-editor window was previously in the project window outside of the window drawn within the main screen and later is opened . If you have any, even ones you've forgotten about, when you open them it will cause your main project window to resize to permit access to them. Things might work well at first ... until you open an outlier window and then every thing goes amok.

3). Once you have found all the AOT windows that might have moved off your project screen as redrawn ... and pulled them to the left into the project window with the horizontal project screen bar dragged all the way to the left ... your project window will always stay exactly where you have placed it and every other window (as you desire) will open up inside of it.

4). Maybe Conman didn't make clear that the 2 seconds to redraw only needs to be done once?

5). I now place all my mixers within the second monitor to the left, completely off the monitor with the project window. I have the main mixer completely extended at the top of that window drawn to the top, left and right borders with input, output and group channels excluded ... and only one click to remove audio, midi or vsti channels as needed. I split the bottom of the screen with the other two mixers, one decicated only to my inputs and the other to my mixing busses and stereo out.

6). I place most of my VSTis to open on top of the second screen with the mixers.

7). I use alternate windows to create different templates for the main screen ... mainly one using the whole screen for tracks and another with the tracks halfway down the page from the top and the channel editor sitting at the bottom and the inserted VSTs to the right of it.

8). Clicking on any channel in the mixer gives access to a key command to open or close the channel editor and I have another to close all open VST and VSTi.

It's very efficient, I never have to resize and I'm finally happy.

Como
Hi,

I hate to whine, but (here I go :mrgreen: ) you should really not have to do all this. I'm sick of hearing how Cubase is such a professional app when the stupid Project Window can't stay maximized when we open the editors! My worst fear is, indeed, this throwing monitor support; nevertheless, I'm expecting this in 6.0.6! Let's hold our breath.......... just joking. :lol:
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Cubase Artist 7.0.6, Wavelab Elements 7, Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, The Grand 3, Melodyne Essential, Superior Drummer, EZDrummer and Pop! EZX, Samson CO1, Yamaha P-35, Mackie MR5mk2 monitors, and more....

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Como Baila
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Re: Why do i haave to constantly resize the arrangement window?

Post by Como Baila » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:42 am

Bane wrote:
Como Baila wrote:I've been avoiding this thread ... since now that I've finally gotten things to work well, it scares me.

I never have to resize windows anymore.

Como
Hi,

I hate to whine, but (here I go :mrgreen: ) you should really not have to do all this. I'm sick of hearing how Cubase is such a professional app when the stupid Project Window can't stay maximized when we open the editors! My worst fear is, indeed, this throwing monitor support; nevertheless, I'm expecting this in 6.0.6! Let's hold our breath.......... just joking. :lol:
Probably not ... but all design decisions have advantages and disadvantages ... and one man's ceiling is another man's floor. :)

I probably wouldn't have had to do this if I'd originally taken the time to read this section of the manual carefully and stay within the design concept from the beginning.

Greater customizability always brings possibilities of greater confusion when you are yet to fully understand how something works.

Anyway, I have done it and have learned it and now really like the way it works. As I said, I'm now fearful changes will be disadvantageous to me.

And I wanted to make sure that as I too once thought not too long ago, Cubase windows always resized, this doesn't have to be the case.

Como
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